Not agreeing whith a system that is clearly flaud getting extra benifits for losing a certain amount of game what is the difference between a team that wins 4 1/2 and a team that wins 5. why should the AFL punish the team that wins 5. Are there any rules in place for team which pick alot of kids and leave experinced players that will win games stuck in the VFL.

AFL sit back and watch this all this happen peoples lives are at stakes just ask Croft. I agree with the lottery system.

No other professional sporting organtion that i know of has PP. PP are a dirty word and should be removed the sooner the better.

Yeah but whether you agree or disagree is irelevant isnt it???

Its the system and its there to either use or ignore...

Weve already tried to ignore the system...

We used to be the best at using the system till we started ignoring the system.
We used to be a good side when we were ruthless at using the system ... before we started ignoring the system,.

What you think does not matter!!!

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What you think has yet to be proven successful success is measured by winning a flag.

If we had goddard and wells in the team would we be in the 8 now would we win a flag earlier would we have walker in our team.

we might be a better or worse off. until st kilda win a flag the system is flawed ask Melbourne if PP has helped them.

even if carlton finishe last for the next ten years get the best 20 youngsters how do you plan on keeping them there is such thing as a salary cap.

You need 6 or 7 players in your team how get payed to play hard no fuse and can count on every week to do there job they are payed for. give me a hard working footballer over a money hungry star ala hamil. you wont always find these player in the PP

But youre missing the point.
Whether you want to face it or not. StKilda are still miles ahead of us in winning the falg and they own us. Were StKildas bitches.
They are wanted by sponsors and by tv stations.
Collingwood and Carlton cant even get themsleves on free to air telly.

Not because i dont think were not good enough ..
But because were not good enough.


Doesnt that tell you something???
Is this meant to be cue where i start ridiculing you for stupidity???

People wonder why frustration creeps into posting.

Its because some people dont get it!!!!!!

If we had Goddard and Wells we might not be playing in the finals but wed have a couple more good players to go with the ones we have.

BTW did you see Wells last quarter today???

Are you saying youd look down your nose at them ????

Some people really are amazing eh????

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Boy this was a long thread for one night. I've read pages 1-9, but to cut it short I've only read Synbad's posts. Is that good or bad? It was a bit repetitive though, although I agree with everything he said... well almost.

Best result possible eventuated today.

A very competitive hit-out, with an honorable loss.

And anyone who wants us to beat Collingwood next week is seriously deluded.

Simply, ask yourself this:

What is going to hurt Collingwood more:
Losing picks 3 and 6?
Or losing 4 points they don't need or want?

I have a bad feeling that Collingwood are going to give us a lesson in using the system to your advantage next week, as they protect their own picks, endanger ours, and take it easy while doing so.

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"The Wigg's big in 08!" - Chris Judd

If the Hawks beat the Bombers on saturday arvo, what the heck the Pies can have Pick 3 ( I only want Pick 1 anyway and the PSD first choice) and I'll be barracking (properly) for the Blues to kill the Pies! Now truly barracking would be a strange experience - I might even be disappointed if we lose.

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Blue is the colour, Blue is our colourful conversation, football is the game, talking carlton is our aim, we're all together, we're all together, winning is our aim, arguing is a pain, let's debate for gain. .. .!

Hmmmm, disagree 79V. Rather not beat Collingwood at all, purely because Essendon* invent new ways to lose to us every time they play us.

A win vs Collingwood means we'll be relying on Essendon* to actually step up and beat us. I wouldn't go in overly confident of a loss.

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"The Wigg's big in 08!" - Chris Judd

Sorry Synbad, but I've been waiting for this opportunity...



How would you interpret that, Budzy?

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

without reading the 9 pages of this thread.

yesterdays result made me feel good because we played well and served it right up to them for the full 4 quaters. the kids will learn a lot from that.

the system however is a joke, and i guess i didnt appreciate how much of a farce it is. in 02 it didnt really matter because we simply were so bad that tanking never really became an issue. i'm torn, i dont know what to feel at the moment, but something just does not feel right.

i'm still supporting the guys like crazy, but if it looks like we might go down towards the end, then i'm not as upset and hurt as i used to be.

now however with a return to form, we have 3 winnable games against the pies dons and roos. as much as i hate to admit it, it think it is our best interests to not win two of these games and close competitive losses like yesterday make is a little more bareable.

a win and a draw would be tops.

i'm not in the murphy or bust group and dont think we should worry about where the other clubs end up. should the pies and hawks get a PP then so be it.

sould the hawks loose their last 3 and we leap frog them and in turn loose a chance at murphy and PSD pick 1 then so be it.

i want us to do our utmost to win this week and if we dont quite get their then okay, we still have another two games were we can do our best to win.

ahh Synbad so its either agree with me or you're stupid. I'll get frustrated and that means I'll have to resort to name calling.....

Oh and like Camel Synners, when I state or ask something, or point out something, it doesn't mean thats all I see. I do not believe in black and white scenarious. All answers are curved.

Some people here want to barrack because that is what the game means to them - more than flags or bragging rights or anything. Going along and barracking for their team.Its not right or worng, its want they want to do. Why get frustrated by it?

Oh and my son understands your whole argument and still was really, really down losing because it doesn't feel right - yes sytem flags meaningless blah blah blah - but is it right?

Course that doesn't matter does it. Nothing matters but the sales pitch, the result. Truly nothing has changed.

Perhaps leopards cannot change their spots.

Perhaps we are doomed to be a chaser of shadows.

Where does glory come from?

What is sport?

Why do I bother?

Questions I find far more interesting than when is a game meaningful or not.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Once upon a time there was only one answer to Camel’s question. When Carlton won there was absolute joy for the weekend – watched the Sunday football show, watched the replay on tape and read the two Sunday newspapers for the match reports. When Carlton lost I would find myself mildly depressed until about Monday afternoon. Now having been indoctrinated by TC members who take a purely pragmatic approach I watch the games just for individual highlights – a glorious pick up and snap by Eddie that by rights – given the conditions – should win goal of the year, a spectacular leap by Jarrad, a Simmo run or a Lappin tackle that absolutely nailed Pickett. I know in my head that we need elite talent to build a great side and that the draft is the system we have to use however the emptiness I felt yesterday still tells me that my passion for football is slowly dissipating.

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"Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about puppies." - Gene Hill

This isn't supposed to be a discussion on the merits of "the tank" or not. I just want people to have the freedom to say how they feel. People may or may not understand what you're saying Synbad, but at least let them have their say without getting whacked over the head with the same old post every 5 minutes. You've had a fair run, just let people post how they feel.

Cheers

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You such a wise man Camel a person whith out an agenda that cares how people feel. At the moment im sure like most Carton supports i feel sad and empty at what a great club Carlton was and now is.

I took pride in following Carlton and I dont feel the same as I used to. .

I loved when people thought carlton supports where arranangt becuase i was one of them . Now people feel sorry for us or laughing at our predicamate.

How does it make me feel?

It poses the question....'Am I after a short term gain or a long-term win?'. At half time I was thinking through this over and over, and chose the long-term win. yes, its my fault we lost.

I felt the complete opposite before the Richmond game, just wanting a win, any win, but I was able to take enough from the game to put away my selfish desire for another win and barrack for the pick.

Surprisingly, I was thinking of a Sydney Blue post yesterday, about his kids not barracking for the Blues. I think we need to be bigger in a few years time, and not just a team coming 7th to 12th, but a really good team. You can argue all you like about the #1 not meaning much more than the #2 but I'd prefer that marginal improvement to be available to us.

And we MUST have the PP to give us 3 top 20's in this years draft, maybe another pick when Houlihan is moved off.

It's not a nice feeling to have but we have to think forward, not of today.

Intellectually I understand the PP argument and the loss when meant we were one step closer, and I suppose we can even afford a win against the bummers.

The only problem is seeing how excited my kids were when we beat Richmond. Just like I was every second Saturday when I stood on a collection of VB cans in front of the Heatley stand.

Even my two year old got caught up in the excitement when we went 7 points up in the last. My 5 year old was devastated and I cannot explain to her why it was "good to lose".

In answer to the thread's question, I suppose I was more upset watching my kids than with the result... which in itself shows how f#@ked the AFL has made my favourite game.

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Carlton - Nothing's changed
I still love you, oh, I still love you
Only slightly, only slightly less
Than I used to, my love

yes the kid thing makes it really hard 'cos I find myself saying to jack but its not just about P.P's son. its about a game, about trying as hard as you can, not always about winning but playing...' yolu know those kind of life things we want to pass on but in this world it gets harder and harder to but everything tells them the oppositte.

lay down. Lose deliberately, you'll be rewarded in the end for lack of effort.

The system demands it

but must i surrender my feelings to the system.

I thought we had it yesterday. i thought we were goling to win and i loved it. loved witting their with jack beside me and we were both smiling again.

But a win isn't a win not any more because rsdstructuring can only be done 1 way. No choice. just do it or your are flower!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Just had a thought – if we win next week will we see footage of a Carlton supporter leaning over the players race tearing up a membership card?

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"Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about puppies." - Gene Hill

haha lol.


what a sad state the game is in.

we are still allowed one more win.

lets beat the pies i say. the dons i can handle a close loss or draw or heaven forbid a win.

then we can play for three quaters against the roos then put lance in the ruck again.

When the AFL introduced this system it was designed to reward lowly placed teams and punish the successful sides. In other words it was designed to hurt Teams like Carlton Hawthorn and Bombers. Hawthorn have felt the pain and their supporters starting tearing at each other apart last year. this year after 15 or so years of fighting the system we have eventually succumb to it . And it hurts it hurts like hell . We all know what steps we need to take to move forward but to accept them it is a different matter. The bombers have yet to feel this pain but it will get them in the next year or two. When enough teams have felt this pain the pressure will start to mount of the AFL as it is at the moment. ( thus the review of the PP situation).

It has brought me to the point where for the first time in my life - I didnt watch - I didnt listen and I didn't even want to know or care about the result.

Pathetic isn't it - But this is what we have become. Thanks AFL

PS thank God for the Cricket that was sport at its best last night

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