It's a fair and measured post BV but I don't quite buy the duty of care angle. If Josh had wanted to go home we would have facilitated that but been left the poorer a la Jacobs and Judd. It goes both ways. I don't believe clubs and players owe each other any more than honesty in the current football landscape. It IS a meat market. That's sad and I miss the days of player loyalty and love of jumper but I don't see how it can be otherwise when you bring the sort of money into the game that we have.

Has that made the game richer?

Yes.

Has that made the game poorer?

Yes.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

The Malthouse example is pretty poor because in terms of Judd moving to Victoria, Collingwood were up to there ears in that deal and would have fully understood that good players would have to be moved on to get him considering they had no early picks . Only last year they were prepared to sacrifice Wellingham or Goldsack to get Ball to Collingwood. I am not sure what fabric Malthouse is talking about but ultimately decisions are made to win premierships and if you can maintain the fabric of the club in the process all good and well. If a player like Judd, Ablett, Brown etc. become available you would be negligent in your duty as a football club not to move heaven and earth to get them to your club.
For me a better example of destroying the fabric of your club is the Grigg/Collins trade. I don't see Grigg being a player I would be moving heaven and earth for to get to my club. Besides the role that Grigg will play in the team what else does he bring to the Richmond Football Club? More memberships, sponsorship dollars, excitement? In the process of getting him to the club they also dispensed of a youngster who liked playing for the club. As a member I can live comfortably with Kennedy being the pawn in the Judd deal, if Carlton had Collins and we used him to get Grigg then I would seriously question the decision making processes.

Your example on Collingwood is supposition IMO but your views on Grigg are fair comment. Further to that, I dont get the vitriol thrown at Grigg for leaving. He's only exercising his options like we did with Kennedy.
I understand DOAs frustration. You cant have it both ways.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Not sure the Collingwood scenario is suppostion. I have not thrown any vitriol at Grigg but if you are unsure why Grigg has copped it, if you spoke to any Collingwood supporter over the weekend about Travis Cloke the most common phrase I heard was he can f### off.
I could be wrong but I reckon Andrew Walker might have signed a new contract after Josh went.

You are right, Andrew signed a new contract late last year.
Unfortunately this is the reality of AFL footy, players getting phone calls on their end of season trips telling them they are to be traded. It goes both ways with players leaving clubs too.
We all felt the pain of losing Kennedy, Carlton didnt want to lose him either but in the end it was what WCE wanted and sadly we lost Kennedy. I am sure at the time he was upset and bewildered but watching him this year he has really blossomed and appears happy. It would have different if he wasnt a WA boy, but he was.
This is the system.
I think a few clubs may have learnt from a few things in the past year. Look at what has happened at the Lions, players they tried to offload to get Fev have walked out the door. Brown left Hawthorn after being put up for trade. Carlton has just had 5 players ask to be traded, if that isnt a wake up call to Ratten and the club then i dont know what is. It has also been a wake up call to a handful of players. Thornton wasnt wanted by another club, Port's best offer for Walker ended up being pick 34. We all can be angry at Grigg for leaving, he obviously had his reasons, but i also think he didnt have to be so outspoken of his love for Hardwick and playing for the coach. That wasnt necessary. Jacobs can hold his head up, he left for reasons we all understood, the club wanted to keep him though. He spoke highly of Carlton, and so he should, we were the ones who gave him a start and developed him. He wouldnt have got his $million dollar contract if wasnt for Carlton.
It goes both ways, AFL is a brutal industry.
I hope Andrew has a great season, he has always been one of my favourites. Time will tell of how his future unfolds. He is a grown man with a young child and i am sure he make decisions for himself.

Lucky I read the whole thread as I was going to post exactly what DOA posted. We had no problems with Carlton disposing of Kennedy (who was shattered) but god forbid a player wants to make a go of it elsewhere.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Now that's a real post of the week.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Every year there would be numerous hopeful players who are overlooked in the draft, and several other players who are delisted by their club that are completely shattered, it's the nature of the industry to be brutal and uncompromising. Players have also been traded by their club whilst overseas. To say that the Kennedy trade suddenly changed the perceptions that players and their families have of the industry highlights their naïvety rather than there being any sudden change in the landscape.

Unfortunately with the money and celebrity (minor as it may be) that come with being an AFL footballer comes the shittiness of professional sport. Loyalty and pride can be trumped by the chase for success, or the chase for cash.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Just on the Kennedy trade. I think the club and supporters have clearly acknowledged that Kennedy was a pawn in the trade to get Judd. They have also clearly acknowledged regret that it had to be that way. I have stated repeatedly that I do not like trade as players are treated as commodities. And the Kennedy trade is a clear indication of that. That said I think it was done with as much dignity as possible and Josh is considered by many as a 'Blue' and would welcomed with open arms at Carlton at any time. I still follow his career and cheer when he does well, he deserves it. Afetr all is said and done, the trade ended up being a win/win for all parties involved and I suspect his mother is delighted to have her boy back in Perth.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

I don't remember Carlton saying that Kennedy wasn't a hard trainer or was disruptive to the group. So nothing like Grigg taking a pot shot at Ratten after being traded. Kennedy got a payrise and 3 year deal. So nothing like Grigg who was in cahoots with Richmond to get him across for as little as possible.

For someone that was "unavailable" all of last week, he sure did a lot of media work after he was traded.

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T E A M

If we're really to delve into Carlton's history, I think you'll find that there's three sides to every trade story. I think the Grigg one is pretty easy to work out where he fits in.

Take Peter McConville. Well liked, well respected, hard worker, didn't put a foot wrong, consistent, 3-time Premiership player. At the end of '85 and nearing 150 games in navy blue he asks for a pay rise. Oops! Before he can blink, he's traded to St.Kilda. Woah...

Fast-forward to 1996. SOS and Braddles are enjoying the Brownlow Medal count with their wives when John Elliott plonks himself down and accuses Silvagni of being 'weak' and that because he hadn't yet re-signed, the club was already negotiating a swap with Matthew Richardson. Silvagni had to be restrained by Bradley for not taking a swing at the then President. Years later, SOS admits had another club put an offer to him that night, he would have signed.

Aaron Hamill needn't be explained. He was famous for asking for the world and the club bent over backwards to keep him happy. But that task was impossible for someone who thought they were the most important player in the league. When his demands exceeded that of his Captain, it was time he and his ego went.

Whilst the Shaun Grigg's of this world were once remunerated on achievement rather than potential, that's no longer the case. Not in this market. Carlton still demands you put the club first. Do the right thing by the club, and it'll do the right thing by you. The well-managed clubs ply the same mantra. To my knowledge, they don't know each other - yet I suspect Aaron Hamill and Shaun Grigg would get on very well.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Twice a century that'll happen. The JK trade just can't be compared to anything we saw this week. Although Shaun Grigg probably thinks he's as good as Chris Judd.

DOA wrote



So can I, and it doesn't flatter my club.

He is suggesting that Kennedy was treated like a shitty rag and cleaned out. That's wrong.

Carlton refused to deal Kennedy for the whole week. In the end Kennedy made the call. Have you considered what would have happened if Kennedy exercised his right to stay as a contracted player.

DOA is just bagging my team.
I do not condone that sort of sniping.
DOA adds no value with his vitiriol against my club.
DOA has nothing nice to say about Carlton and hasn't for a long time.
That's what I understand from his post. It's a one liner...boom boom.

BV, I know what you want to understand DOA is saying, but he isn't saying anything along the lines you present. Clearly.
He's having ANOTHER dig at CFC.

For god sake don't encourage him.


Oh yeah...and on the Malthouse- team fabric comment; I remember that.
Malhouse wouldn't trade Didak to Port Melb for Stevens......and we got Stevens in the PSD with the first pick.
Stevens is not Judd....and Malhouse knew that too.
The question that remains is what Malthouse would have given up to WCE if Judd had nominated Collingwood and not Carlton.
Maybe he would have given them Didak and Thomas..you see the team fabric argument from Mick imo is a crock o' shit.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Yes but Grigg wasn't given an opportunity to show his wares at senior level this year until Round 14.......and then he was dropped the following week. On the other hand we had some battlers that got a game every week (won't mention their names) plus others like Anderson, Hadley and Robinson who got picked ahead of Grigg at times.

I'm not fully condoning Grigg's behaviour however I do understand where he was coming from and am very disappointed that he has left the club. He is a quality prospect IMO.

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'The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule it'
H.L. Mencken

Still a quality prospect? After 4 years you'd hope he'd have lost the 'prospect' tag. As for not being given a go...I attended some of his Bullants games and he DIDN'T DESERVE to get a run. His problem was that he expected it. He was so frickin' lazy playing the Bullants, he was exposed on a number of occasions. While many of you might have gone to the 3qtr time huddle to listen to Teague's virtues of football, I listened to the opposition coaches - who on more than one occasion told their player to run hard, because Grigg won't run hard the other way.

Sure, he had potential...lots of it. But his cons far outweigh his pros. Great shame he couldn't have had an outstanding season and we might have got more. But his ankles are crap and he can't kick properly, nor fire out a handball. Should be a great asset for Coburg.

But he is the father of a player! Surely his ideas are worth more than ours!

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dane's trolling again

Reality check.

That should do the job Doc.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

You guys crack me up. It's okay for the club to turn lives and careers upside down as long as we do it 'nicely' but a player wants to leave to get game and he's a piece of shit. We're Carlton @#$%&! the rest!

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

or in short, 'Shaun Grigg was a wasted top 20 pick' cannot kick, handball or even break the lines. looking forward to seeing him on ABC grandstand on Sat arvo playing in front of 1000 spectators. To me, Collins is a pick 70 who plays like a pick 20. Grigg is a pick 20 who plays like a pick 70.

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!