Did Pagan want a belting??

we all know that we have done well lately scoring heavily and winning a couple of games. But I'm shore Pagans mind is made up and that a couple of wins was just that to him.

With delistings around the corner and a PP to protect, did Denis Pagan play the players in such positions that guaranteed a thumping?

maybe not by 99pts but a comfortable belting at least, which would make it a little easier to have a mass culling in the coming weeks...

What do you think?

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

We were well gone by the time he started moving players around werent we?

Although I did feel that we just shut off in the first quater after looking the goods for all of 15 minutes

I am really looking forward to the mass cull and the rebuilding process, lets hope we get rid of campo and his band of dead weights....

I was thinking prior to the match was if we had to lose it should be closer to 20 points than 100, our backline seriously were outclassed today too.

Maybe you are right about Pagan doing it for a reason... we couldnt be that bad... could we?

Pagan was probably just softening the supporters up. We'll be more accepting of an extensive list cleanout when an absolute belting is fresh in our mind.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

I wouldn't blame the backline for the belting... the ball just got down there too much.

I think you’re exactly right. The pre-match speech probably went something like this:

Guys I want everyone to listen up, that includes you fatboy. Yep Lance I'm talking to you, drop the hamburger. Right now we all know that you've been playing particularly well of late, especially the kids. By the way everyone give AB a hand for getting the Rising Star nomination this week. Good stuff. Anyhoo getting back to the point, we all know that you've been playing particularly well. However unfortunately Synbad, some guy who posts on a internet forum and occasional stalks us during training sessions, thinks that you all suck the big one and that we need to replace you with top 5 draft picks and fast. And since he's put in such a big effort posting away on internet forums that I think we should reward him by giving up entirely. You guys suck and I want you to lose. That's right, lose! I'm sure you know how to do that, you've been doing it all year. Look if you do this for me I'll promise that I'll only give Morrell, Campo and one or two others the flick at the end of the year. Where are you going to get a better deal then that? Now bugger off the lot of you and make us all ashamed!


Can't you just feel the tankage

Pagan didnt want a belting.. believe it or not apart from playing Fev not totally fit as well as TBird.. and theres a few of those in every club at the moment.. see Penny and Jonathon Brown for examples at teams not trying to 'tank'.. just believe Pagan did everything he could to win today.

As a matter of fact as the players went back into the rooms.. Denis was waiting and eyeballed each and every one of them....

Denis was furious!!!

The current team just doesnt have what it takes..

Priority Picks beckon and the soo0ner this season is over the better it is.
Id take the wooden spoon...

Its the wooden spoon we had to have....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I reckon there'll be another spoon to come next year as we continue to rebuild.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

I blame the backline for not manning up, how many times in that first half were players caught out on the rebound? how many easy crumbs did MJ get? Teague was as useless as breasts on a bull, T-Bird should of stayed home this week and last, McGrath backed up a great game last week with his worst game for the club and Camporeale should remember it is not how many possies you get, it is what you do with the ball that counts, oh and what your opponent does with the ball.

Teague has won the Corey McKernan medal for me. B&F followed by delisted or trade.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

If that's the case WBY, then at least we can look forward to what is already touted as a super draft! But let's not start talking about tanking in 2006 just yet...

Why is everyone a tad surprised by what happened yesterday. These types of beltings have been occurring with monotonous regularity since 2002 and the main reason is that we have a sub-standard list of players for AFL. You only need to cast you mind back 4-5 weeks when the same was occurring against the aints and weagles. Admitting your faults is the first and most important step on the road to recovery and I want every Carlton supporter to admit that our side is S.H.I.T!!! Now that we've admitted that, let's all walk towards the promised land that is top picks in player drafts...

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C'mon Blueboys!

I'd seriously expect to be down the bottom end next year as we continue to bring kids through.

It's not tanking, it's a reflection on ability and timing with player development.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

Totally agree WBY. Problem is that if we go through another year of shameful mediocrity like this year and the previous 3 years then I suspect that our club might find itself in a rut it can't escape from. Then again in the current system you either finish in the eight or last because everything else in between is no man's land! Denis couldn't possibly be surprised by what happened yesterday. Its not like it hasn't happened before!

Could Carlton survive another poor finish in 2006 without some serious damage?

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C'mon Blueboys!

I would like to give that Self Centered Smuck the belting he deserves for turning our once proud club into this mess

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

No the pre match speech went something like this:

Guys I want everyone to listen up. Most of you guys, even the c-z graders are really superstars and you'll definitely take us to a premiership in the next few years. That 10 wins last year sure did help us have a great year this year, so I want you to smash the bumbers so we can at least be on another winning streak and defend the wizzy fizzy dizzy cup. Andain, some guy who posts on an internet forum and occasionally stalks me at home and can read my mind, thinks that you all are the next Judd and that we don't need to replace you with top 5 draft picks. He thinks the only pick we need is the one that comes out of my nose. So I want you to win at all costs, just like you did the other few times during the year and everything will be alright.


Don't you just love the winning feeling in the air

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You can just smell that fresh Carlton arrogance coming back into the air

I assume you mean John Elliott Sydney Blue but this seems to be a thread about Denis Pagan and you couldn't surely be silly enough to think this is all his fault could you?

Pagan's the one who inherited an aging and crap list with no decent juniors coming through.

He's also the one who had two years worth of high draft picks denied. People continue to think we were denied Goddard and Wells due to the draft but we were actually denied SIX players (seven if we hadn't traded one for French).

Looking back over those penalties (with the added benefit of hindsight) we could have had the following:


2002 #01 Goddard
2002 #02 Wells
2002 #34 Brent Staker, Anthony Corrie or Leigh Fisher

2003 PSD Brent Moloney or Stephen Powell

2003 #05 Brock McLean, Kepler Bradley or Kane Tenace
2003 #20 Harry Miller, Jed Adcock or Ricky Dyson


Imagine that:

We could have had Goddard, Wells, Staker, Moloney, McLean and Adcock (or whatever combination you might like) all running around in navy blue at the moment.

And that's ON TOP OF all our current promising kids such as Waite, Walker, Fevola, Bentick, Simpson, Betts, Fisher, Thornton, Carrazzo, Bryan, Russell, Hartlett, Blackwell, O'hAilpin, Raso etc.

It's enough to make you want to cry and it's certainly enough to make you feel sorry for the poor bastard whose job it is to clean up that mess.

I'm assuming you did mean John Elliott and I'm with you.

I'd like to give him a belting too.

GWS, now let's not put alot of thought into this process - that would require some analysis. No, no, no, it is much "easier" to place the blame with Pagan. He's had everything needed to become a successful coach at Carlton and he has dragged us down to levels we have have never been to before.

I'm sorry but I will not hear of any analysis or thought being put to this topic - Pagan is to blame and nobody else but Pagan. You can just take your facts elsewhere!

GWS, did you not know that footy is won in the courts?

Sorry...forgot again...

(Crawls back into hole)

Here is proof
Lowest winning percentage - 24% - by a coach who has coached at least 1 year since the birth of the AFL
1 spoon and another on its way
2003 – Biggest ever defeat (WCE, 116pts)
2003 – Biggest ever defeat (Kan, 124pts)
2003 – Biggest ever losing margin at 3 quarter time (111)
2003 - 7th highest ever score conceded to St Kilda by any club
2003 - Conceded highest ever score at Princess Park (166)
2004 – Biggest ever defeat to Melbourne
2004 – Highest ever score conceded to Melbourne
2004 – 9th biggest score ever conceded to Melbourne by any team
2004 – Record 4th time in 3 years to lose by 100 pts or more
2004 – Highest ever score conceded by the club
2004 - 2nd highest ever score conceded to St Kilda by any club
2004 – Conceded highest ever score by a team at the Telstra Dome (196)
2004 – Conceded highest ever score in a quarter to St Kilda
2004 - Conceded highest ever score in a half to St Kilda
2005 – Biggest ever Defeat to Richmond (85)
2005 - 20th highest ever score conceded to St Kilda (155)
2005 – Conceded highest ever score in a quarter to West Coast
2005 – Conceded highest ever score in a quarter by a team at Subiaco
2005 - Conceded highest ever score to Fremantle (152)
2005 - Conceded highest ever score to Essendon* (182)
2005 - Conceded second highest first half score by Essendon* (114)

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Don't let facts ruin a good argument Sydney.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Yep - terrible isn't it.

Perhaps if he had 6 young champs then this might not have happened.