Yes, but how many times in a season, and flogged by whom? it's a regular event with our list. We clearly lack leadership and this will probably not change until we can bring up a new young leadership group with the right qualities. This is years away, as there is noone bringing them along in the meantime.

Our younger players are as good if not better than Essendon*'s - ive no dbout in my mind about that at all.

Look at the players that played well for the buumers. llyod 7 goals, Johnson 6 goals, Hird 3 goals. Compare that to the imput we got from our senior players Kouta, Campo, Lappin?

i do rate alot of our kids higher than i rate the bomber kids. But when you have your top tier players playing well (Llyod, Hird, Jonsons etc,,) it lifts those kids around them.

The last few weeks have been really impressive because it has been our kids that have taken the game on. Our senior players are struggling, where as the buumers in that game, their senior players where on fire.

thats the difference.

and i will stat it again.

i rate many of our younger players higher than i rate their younger players. It was the senior players that made the difference in this game.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

You can compare us to maybe where the Eaqgles were 4 years ago, when they were thumped by us at Optus by 100+ points and couldn't really take a trick.

IIRC that year's draft picked them up Judd. The Eagles were crap, but not consistently so, because they still had a pretty strong nucleus of senior players.

Time and time again it becomes obvious that this is where we fall down.
We will need more than a Judd this year to move us back into the Eaqles' territory.

We did beat the eagles in the Wizard Cup!
How many genuine midfielders does WC have at this point of time? Cousins, Judd, Fletcher, Embley, Braun, Kerr, and Cox!
How many do we have? Hmmmmmm Maybe Stevens.

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

Good on ya Prez for goin in to bat for the boys.We aint world beaters,but aint nearly as bad as some suggest.Shitcanning your own players is a weak gutted copout as far as im concerned.Defeatist to the extreme.Form is a fickle thing,and as our coach rightly suggests,things can turn around pretty quickly.

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All my dangerous friends

actually I thought Healy put across a point that kind of suits prez and synbad basically its that without say 4 top a graders your b graders become c graders and so on.

now we fall down because our so called a graders Kouta Campo Fev Lappin and Lance never produce together - they did in the Whizz cup but thats about all.

We need to replace the a graders (synbad) but then as they mature (with Waite/Walker/Russell? as also A graders) our c graders may turn out to be b graders.

How's that. Clear as ABC

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

and that is the frustrating thing DB

that is exactly what the club needs, but if you listen to some on here, we havent got a player worth an afl contract and that shits me to tears to hear people suggest that.

our club will benefit from the PP and a no 1 - no doubt in that one second, but our list is probably 75% complete to being a very very good list. Hardly the doom and gloom that some would have us believe.

When our top talent fire - Kouta, Whintall, Lappin, Campo, Fevola and Stevens, then our younger players play alot better. This is no different to any other club, but this season has seen hardly any of them fire at all let alone in the same game for an extended period.

its been the kids that have shown the leadership required, and we have looked good doing so - which is why i dont get the while "we have the shittest list in the comp"

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

Perhaps because we expect our senior players to play good games more than once in a blue moon!

Fev, Campo, Whits, Stevo, Kouta, Lappo...all top notch players...

where is the consistancy? They have all played well at some stage in the season...but not consistently...and not together...

actually Lappo hasn't played a decent game since the Wizzo...Campo a few more...the others have done better...but not together!

I would rather give Bentick the captaincy and have a "senior leadership group" of Bentick , Simpson , Waite , Walker and Thornton than have the same rabble of a leadership group next year.

Bentick even has a track record as a good leader , can't dish up any worse than our current "senior leaders" give now.

I look forward to the cull.

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

I just hope that if we do pick up picks 1 and 4 this year, that they are given time to become A graders, and that the pressure for them to be a saviour for the club is reduced.

Given Denis has given Russell, Hartlett, Blackwell, et al significant time in the two's, you have to think that it is possible that whoever gets picked up might not play a whole bunch of games in '06.

I think we are BETTER than the Eagles we just need to get our players to 100 games....
especially our midfield.. much classier ... faster and more skilled.

They have Cousins we have Kouta
They have Judd we have Campo...


Did you know were paying just on 100% of the salary cap???... and Koutas vets listing puts us over it in real terms???

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... now thats some piece of info eh??

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

So if our list isnt the worst Prez, which one is?
I'd be happy to read your detailed reasons.

There's a difference between being realistic and being negative.
I believe our list behind the other 15 clubs.
That doesnt mean I'm shitcanning anyone Mick, it means I'm being honest in my assessment.
If we dont admit our deficiencies, we cant address them.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I suppose that is true if you consider turning things around in 3-5 years "pretty quickly". We've been at or near the bottom for quite some time now...

perhaps another way of putting it is that until we get some A graders prepared to give us consistent games we probably won't know a whole lot about our c/b graders.

so its not so much that the kids are shite or anything, but without the support other kids at other clubs get,m how can we expect anything other than the regular floggings.

In some ways we have to wait until Waite/Fisher/Walker (& whoever we get) etc are ready to take on the senior mantle - mentally and physically.

Possible A graders at the club. (only possible too I might add)

Waite Walker Bentick - shit anyone else?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Fair enough BV............But what riles me is that we are told time and time again that any side on any given day can beat anyone.Its 90 percent between the ears.And we have shown when on song that we can match it with anyone...........As i see it we have not had a red hot go far to often.And it is the coaches job to motivate and inspire his players,and that is clearly not happening on too many occasions.I say we are not nearly as bad as what we have shown.Carrots and Red are about the only ones that have been up for most of the year.

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All my dangerous friends

Red has been playing in huge losses and that means the opposition hasnt worried about him... or in games where the opposition want to lose.
Reds done nothing under pressure of opponents..
Carrazzo has done ok but nothing more..

Its only between the ears when the players are comparable talent wise... not when we have the worst list in the AFL....they try...theyre not up to it..

DB.. Bentick is a million miles from being an A grader...

Precious little of A grade talent at the club....

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Yes he is, as will most players plkaying their first 50 or so games. That's not the point. The word is possible - are not to use this word anymore, are we not to speculate, must it all be hish hush lest we disturb the natives?

AB is justa kid starting out - seriously I understand, however, I like his hands, I like his attack on the ball and I like his ability to get the pill. So I wonder about him. And I hope - same as you do about Murphy (only you have more reason and less hope on your side).

Mind you I hope every Carlton player turns out to be a champion - how stupid of me. Better to label them all crap and go for the shinign light of picks.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

David Clarke is a possible champion too... he has actually played 100 games..He just needs a chance.

Bentick WONT be a champion but he might be a serviceable player.. doesnt make him A grade material .

I think we are getting too carried away with our fantastic list.

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I'm with Danny on Bentick.

He may well only become a serviceable player but the kid has an awareness that I haven't actually seen in anyone wearing a navy blue jumper since Diesel. There are obviously flaws to his game but he's got intangibles that excite me more than the more obvious talented kids we have.

He may not even make it.

Who knows?

I'm certainly not putting the farm on it and he's nowhere near having been tested yet and we probably won't know on him for a good few years yet but so far I really like what I've seen.

Doesn't mean I don't want as much talent around Bentick as we can muster.

David Clarke's a possible champion...

As Vintage would say he is a matchup nightmare against teams like Port, Freo and the doggies.

PS we were talking about Teague as another A grader last year.

These kind of players have serious defficiencies in todays game.

they can make up for some of it with guts and determination but their lot will always be a struggle toiling for the others around them.. for as long as there is a use for them...

I love AB.. doesnt mean he is going to be an A grader..
Luke Ball is an A grader.. Dal Santo... Judd ..Arkemanis..

Walker has the tools to be an A grader.. Bentick might be a work horse.. and im sure he would be embarassed to be called a potential 'A grader'..

were clutching to straws here...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.