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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:07 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Synbad wrote:
Yeah i know you wouldnt get into a pissing competition with me cos you sit down when you piss....so youd lose...

:shock: :-D

The Matador would have taken Hodge ahead of Judd because he's the better kick. Doesn't matter than Judd can run a 100 metres in even time, break tackles and kick accurately without breaking stride when under pressure.Yeah! Give us Hodge ahead of Judd because he has a better kick when he ambles down the ground!

Though Judd does contradict Synbad's argument about coming from the TAC and playing crap in a shitty team. 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:15 am 
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Bruce Doull
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JuzzCarlton wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Yeah i know you wouldnt get into a pissing competition with me cos you sit down when you piss....so youd lose...

:shock: :-D

The Matador would have taken Hodge ahead of Judd because he's the better kick. Doesn't matter than Judd can run a 100 metres in even time, break tackles and kick accurately without breaking stride when under pressure.Yeah! Give us Hodge ahead of Judd because he has a better kick when he ambles down the ground!

Though Judd does contradict Synbad's argument about coming from the TAC and playing crap in a shitty team. 8)


I think what Matador doesnt get (no matter how much he tells us he knows his footy but doesnt) is that Walkers disposal was pretty good in the TAC... not the best but in the the top echelon..
But in the AFL everything is faster and for a 19 year old kid playing for a rabble there is nowhere to hide... everything is much faster so it takes time to really pick up the pace.... Luke Ball is a classic example..
The better the side.. the quicker a good kid picks up the pace... the worse a side is the harder it is...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:52 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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I still remember Walker's goal in the WOK, when he grabbed the ball on the goal line from 2 Dogs who thought it was through the points!
One Kouta-like grab with the left hand and just threw onto his left, to snap the goal around the body in the one action without thinking! :-D
And can also mongrel them through from 50 such as when he ran off Aker! :-D Then told him to @#$%&! off IIRC! :-D


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:05 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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Our SENIOR midfielders are stupid, They all want to get the ball but no ones wants to block and do the shepherding.
How many times have we seen Stevens or Camporeale tell a kid to run with the ball and then lay a Shepard, Never they always demand the ball of the kids.
The main villains of this are, Stevens, Scotland and Camporeale.
The SENIOR players need to pull there heads in and stop thinking there about them selves ont he footy field.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:46 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Barone wrote:
Our SENIOR midfielders are stupid, They all want to get the ball but no ones wants to block and do the shepherding.
How many times have we seen Stevens or Camporeale tell a kid to run with the ball and then lay a Shepard, Never they always demand the ball of the kids.
The main villains of this are, Stevens, Scotland and Camporeale.
The SENIOR players need to pull there heads in and stop thinking there about them selves ont he footy field.


Barone can see it...

Plus its more than just that trio...We play selfish footy.. and that does not help the kids.

What the kids need is people blocking and shepherding.l. when they know their TEAM MATES are doing this they are more confident on the ball.. and their disposal is better.
When they have no confidence in their team mates they hurry everything and play without confidence.

The senior group have shot the nerves of the kids like Walker/ Livo etc.. and when Simmo plays around them for long enough and not in the VFL he too will have his confidence shot by the lack of teamwork coming from our senior group.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Headplant wrote:
No question his kicking in AFL matches is not the best. But have a look at his kicking at training and you will observe that there is nothing wrong with his technique. The problem, as I implied, appears to me to be one relating to confidence (in relation to lack of support from team mates and in particular the senior players who don't give him any), something which is a plague in this team.

He works incredibly hard on field to make good position only to get overlooked or ignored by guys like Campo. This is hardly going to build his confidence. He is probably trying too hard at times, doesn't steady in the stride before he kicks. I don't think it's a problem, it will improve over time.


I agree with most of this post except Walkers kicking technique.
He misses as many targets at training as he does in games.
His balance is poor whilst kicking, his head tilts to the left and isnt over the ball.
He kicks off his instep and his margin for error is very small.
He pulls a lot of his kicks and his attempted pass to Carrazzo against Collingwood was a perfect example.
He has a fantastic work ethic, fantastic attitude and a great hunger for the game however he needs to work on his deficiencies as well.
If he doesnt improve his kicking, he will not reach his potential.

We need more resources at the club to work on individual requirements instead of the generic practices which exist at the moment.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:18 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The development structures will be in place next year...

Its about time too.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:22 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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you mean pick 2 isn't a finished product.

But pick 1 is right? RIGHT!!!!!!!

Oh hang on they ar ejust kids. Ahh patience...danielsan Wax on, wax off. Wax on, wax off.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:24 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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dannyboy wrote:
you mean pick 2 isn't a finished product.

But pick 1 is right? RIGHT!!!!!!!

Oh hang on they ar ejust kids. Ahh patience...danielsan Wax on, wax off. Wax on, wax off.


Pick one was Cooney.... but i love Walkz.. hes suffering from playing in a rabble .. but he will work his way out of it and become the star he was destined to be...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:25 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Blue Vain wrote:
Headplant wrote:
No question his kicking in AFL matches is not the best. But have a look at his kicking at training and you will observe that there is nothing wrong with his technique. The problem, as I implied, appears to me to be one relating to confidence (in relation to lack of support from team mates and in particular the senior players who don't give him any), something which is a plague in this team.

He works incredibly hard on field to make good position only to get overlooked or ignored by guys like Campo. This is hardly going to build his confidence. He is probably trying too hard at times, doesn't steady in the stride before he kicks. I don't think it's a problem, it will improve over time.


I agree with most of this post except Walkers kicking technique.
He misses as many targets at training as he does in games.
His balance is poor whilst kicking, his head tilts to the left and isnt over the ball.
He kicks off his instep and his margin for error is very small.
He pulls a lot of his kicks and his attempted pass to Carrazzo against Collingwood was a perfect example.
He has a fantastic work ethic, fantastic attitude and a great hunger for the game however he needs to work on his deficiencies as well.
If he doesnt improve his kicking, he will not reach his potential.

We need more resources at the club to work on individual requirements instead of the generic practices which exist at the moment.


Over at the Bulldogs, Farren's kicking has improved immeasurably. :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:27 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I have no probs with Walks either - or AB or Fish 8)

now Clarke :roll:

as for Cooney, must say the Doggies got that right. He is a game buster that one.

That'd be good to get wouldn't, a real game buster or two. Where have all our game busters gone?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:32 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Walker will be one... and Murphy and our pick 4 will be others.. and if were lucky enough to win a wooden sppon next year... Gibbs is meant to be capable of being an AFL player aged 16 8) add players like Fish and Betts etc
They will come.. we will get better.. and when we do we will cherish it much much more...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:39 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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dannyboy wrote:
Where have all our game busters gone?


Wasn't hat a song from the 60's?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:01 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Quote:
and if were lucky enough to win a wooden sppon next year...


Look I'm feeling bad enough as it is... don't completely ruin my day... :(

I am off to Europe for 3 weeks.... so good to get away from the current situation - so depressing all. Really hopw we get great picks and trades... so I can get through summer...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:29 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Mrs Caz wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Where have all our game busters gone?


Wasn't hat a song from the 60's?


No, Its something that sits on ones head. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:42 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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I think its up to Pagan to make the senior players pul there fingers out, ala Rodney Eade at the bulldogs.
On the weekend Walker got cuiaght for droping the ball twice trying to run free from a pack, HE HAD NO SUPPORT. Did anyone lay a shepard, no and then the players had the nerve not to even go up to him and give him a pat on the back.
The senior players are relay starting to piss me off, very selfish, but then again Stevens and Scotland did leave there previece clubs for there own benefit. Makes you wonder.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Pagan approached Scotland and offered him an opportunity.
Gave him the chance to play senior footy.

So you think Scotland should have been content playing for Williamstown whilst duds like Woewodin stood ahead of him?
He chose a career and rightly so!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:42 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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His drop of the ball to his foot when he kicks is really pathetic, I think someone should teach him how to kick on the run, possibly change his kicking style completely, learn to kick from scratch. start all over again. It's better to learn now whilst he's still young and learning the game.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:27 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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KoRn wrote:
His drop of the ball to his foot when he kicks is really pathetic, I think someone should teach him how to kick on the run, possibly change his kicking style completely, learn to kick from scratch. start all over again. It's better to learn now whilst he's still young and learning the game.


He has got the whole pre-season to just focus on his skills now. We know he can run and hopefully after this year he can kick. He has all the problems with his kicking action of an eleven year old but lets hope he can fix it. I reckon he can. If his action was good and he was a shit kick then would start to worry but that is not the case. One he can kick a bit better he will be more confiednent and then he will be a star once we het some good in and unders to feed him the ball.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:01 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Hindsight is an exact science, but some of Wisbey's comments about Walker are on as the mark as with Russell's!

Courtesy of Colin Wisbey at Extreme Black'n'White

Andrew Walker (Bendigo Pioneers)

189/83 bottom age right foot (dual-sided) outside HBF/wing.

Outside half back flanker / wing who, in time, might be capable of becoming an attacking CHB, perhaps an outstanding one..

Definite AFL, and he could be anything, because of combination of athleticism, ethic and being dual-sided. I am extrapolating a fair bit though as he still has improvements to make and weight to add. Walker will go top 10 and possibly top 5. I rank him at 6. All the ones I have earlier than him are more natural footballers which is the main reason I have Walker a little further down than many would have him. Frankly, though, I could have thrown my top 7 around in any order without losing sleep over it. Walker will definitely be a player and a very exciting one. Will play in year 1.

*STYLE LIKE: N Smart

*TRADEMARK:

- Pick up on the run at speed then dash away, gliding over the turf, leaving the chaser in his wake, then long kick (though not necessarily targeted.
- Speccy (or at least an attempted on).

*SUMMARY ASSESSMENT, RECOMMENDATION:

Can run the lines, jump and link well. Kicking style and accuracy worries me a bit at the moment as does an occasional use of a silly bouncing technique. However, as a bottom-age nicely built 189cm athlete, he epitomises the modern footballer. Great upside. Definite AFL. As a bonus, he is very bottom age He got better and better as '03 wore on (mid-way trend up 32% statistically) .

Arguably as attractive a package as anyone in the draft if you tick off the things you like to see in the modern footballer.

Good versatility due to combination of pace, size, marking, dual-sidedness, leap, general athleticism. Clean hands. Moves well. At AFL best early role may be "wing" or run-the-lines HBF and maybe a dashing CHB later on. Has the pace, endurance & agility to go with a small and exploit overhead, and is good enough overhead to handle a reasonably tall opponent and exploit pace & endurance.

Has got a number of improvements to make but has tremendous upside. You wouldn't know it to look at him but he is part aboriginal and has some of that magic aboriginal-type quality about him. A quality kid. Will take time to iron out some flaws but will debut in '04 and could be anything.

Compulsive outside dasher who, like Tenace, always seems to be cruising. Great pace and acceleration off the mark.

Is predictable - get, run, kick and kick long. Too predictable.

Gets a lot of ball. (29th in TAC) and marks (17th in TAC, 5th among the players over 187cm).

A natural free runner, a 90m run-the-lines dasher. Covers plenty of ground but is prepared to be accountable and is effective at shutting down an opponent when he has such a job. Good spoiler whose athleticism enables him to reach over from behind, even on the run.

*DISPOSAL, DECISION-MAKING, SMARTS:

- Very predictable. His game is basically run, mark/get, run, kick long. Almost always kicks and almost always kicks long. I think he needs to learn to mix it up more.

- I think he is athlete first and footballer 2nd so he is not instinctively smart like a Tenace is.

- Is a right footer (although uses left frequently). Oddly, he is a left hander.

- Tends to kick across his body with the left foot on the run (but right is OK).

- Accuracy is borderline OK. Is recently tending to hit targets more. However his kicking style right foot bothers me. Low take (I'm not a fan). Left arm goes out OK then bends vertically then rotates fwd. (I;m not sure what that does to his balance). Early and/or double-handed loose release (which concerns me). Right foot goes way back but then gets cramped on impact (which also bothers me). Sometimes only follows through half way when I would expect him to go all the way. (This may be the result of being cramped). Sometimes has a short plant stride - not that that is a big deal in itself but it adds to the likelihood of him being cramped on impact, as does dropping the ball a little close due to slight arm bend.

- I don't yet have a handle on his smarts. eg In one game the coach gave him a roving commission across half back in one quarter but he had only 3 possessions, which is poor for a roving commission, given that play was in his half a fair bit.

- Sometimes tries to do too much and gets stripped.

- Runs hard, mainly wide in space, but doesn't always have the impact on a game that his natural talent should deliver.

- Sometimes uses a shocking bouncing technique which leaves him vulnerable to losing control. Tucks ball under arm, bounces ball with left hand but outside right leg!!! (instead of out in front). Bounces and retrieves one-handed with the left hand & bounces the ball on the flat part of the ball instead of the pointy end & out in front of him. Hence he struggles to keep control of bouncing ball even under no pressure. I haven't noticed this recently.

*HANDS:

- Clean

*OVERHEAD MARKING:

- Fairly reliable overhead. Goes for a lot but does take a fair percentage. Will not die wondering.

- Can take screamers. Huge leap, loves a speccy (most likely from the back of the pack).

- I could be wrong but he gives me the impression that he sometimes closes his eyes in a marking contest. At such times he hasn't shirked the contest so, if my observation is correct, it is probably just a subconscious thing. His intensity re making contests is mixed but mainly good and he loves a big fly. On the one hand, I've seen him take a number of very courageous hospital marks. On the other hand, every so often he displays a bit less intensity than I would like.

- Tends to most often mark from behind and sometimes goes for such marks as if no-one is in front to reach the ball first (i.e he sometimes "waits" for the ball and finds the player in front takes it first).

*ATHLETICISM, INTENSITY, ETHIC, CONSISTENCY:

- Absolutely outstanding athleticism - outstanding acceleration, very good pace, great endurance, huge leap.

- Good at closing down (corralling) an opponent then front-on tackle - not violent but effective.

- Occasionally tries to bump when he should tackle.

- Runs hard to chase down an opponent, and closes quickly. Doesn't do a lot of tackling though. 7 of his 16 TAC games have been zero or 1 tackle.

*SCI (SCOPE FOR CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT):

- Good.
- Will improve and become more versatile with more weight.
- Is possibly still growing.
- Can improve accuracy by working on his kicking technique.

*AFL VERSATILITY:

- Obvious dashing HFB but also dangerous on wing. Subject to weight, has potential as a CHB but at this stage is very outside.
. Onball is a query as I'm not convinced of his smarts and he is very outside. Could pinch hit HFF but he is suited to straight-line.

*QUERY:

- Kicking style.
- Occasional silly bouncing style (He may have already eliminated this).

*SOME STATS:

- TAC: Averaged 22 disposals in 14 TAC games (29th in comp). 5.4 marks, 1.7 tackles, total 5 goals-7. 82% of disposals are kicks. 25% of his possessions are marks. At least 20 disposals in 11 of his 16 games '02-'03, incl a 32 and 29. 7 marks or more in 6 of 14 games '03, incl 9 three times.
- Mid-way trend .. % change in disposals was 32%. % change in marks was 4%. % change in tackles was -21% (from an already low base).

- Stats summary '03 U18 Champs:
Averaged 16 disposals and 3.7 marks in 3 U18 Rep games.
Kicks vs feeds: heavily favouring kicks (as per TAC pattern). 39-10.
Tackles: 5
S.P. clearances: 3 incl 0 cbc
Gets own ball?: 20/49 TD were HR. 3 HBG
Kicks long vs short: 28-8 which is his TAC pattern also. Almost always kicks and kicks long.
Kicking accuracy: 3/39 were ineff
Handball accuracy: 2/10 were ineff/clang incl 1 clang
Marking: 11 (incl only 1contested)

*OTHER STUFF:

- All Aust TY.
- TAC Team Of Year TY: Wing.
- 1 Morrish Medal vote '03.
- MVP for Vic Country '03 U18 Champs
- AIS
- Played '03 finals for Echuca seniors.


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