Wow.

The quality of the posts in this thread is reaching new heights.

Surely there are better things to do on a Sunday than post seven word responses or, even worse, rolling-eye emoticons?

I'm going to vacuum out the car. That'll be heaps more fun.

See the problem with you Synbad is you're so defensive you lose your ability to reason.

I'm not comparing the Carlton team with dominant football or cricket teams...i'm simply isolating a line of yours and showing why it is a falicy... I'm not even disagreeing with you regarding Kouta's captaincy, I'm just pointing out that to argue that a captain needs to associate with his players socially to be succesful, is historically inacurate. Of course i'm going to give examples of successful captains to prove this, otherwise how else can i make my point.

All i can say is thank heavens you're not a barrister, you'd be laughed out of court... your reasoning and deductive skills are all over the shop.

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Number 17 - come on down!

And Synbad and I are pointing out that you can't look at things in isolation, and that maybe quiet captains are acceptable when the team fabric is strong.

Back to the main point, who is potential captain material?

Don't give me thornton, he is overated by most in this forum IMHO. I have my doubts about Stevens but he's worth a try.

Barnaby is captain material IMO. Then rotate it through the kids - Waite, Fisher, Scotland,Teague. Just to get them used to another form of responsibility.

And according to you Synbad, in another thread you wrote, we'll be close to the bottom next year and "get ready for a long year next year". Well, considering at the start of this year you thought "we're back!!!", and at the start of 2003 you thought we'd be back in the 8, I think this means we'll do well next year. So boys, Synners is saying "we're in for a long year". That means you better not plan september holidays because it if Synners says we'll be close to the bottom, we'll probably be close to the top.

Now Synbad wants this club back up the top, and I admire that. Unfortunately, he isn't a very intelligent man. How do you think the club benefits from posters telling people we're going to need to be at the bottom for the next two years. It would be akin to making an advertising campaign for membership saying "we're tanking for the long-term future of the club, we're not actually aiming to win matches, but sign up anyway and go to the games". Geez that would sell well wouldn't it. But I wouldn't put it past you to do that if you were in charge. Coz now I know what it feels like to be you...!!!! .

So keep going, attack posters, make them feel disillusioned, try to drop membership numbers by a couple of hundred. It's not like the club needs the money does it? If you think we need to tank, keep it to yourself. Leave people like Jarusa/Surrey alone.

Carlton are going through a tough stage posters, but we are only as strong as we are united, and as weak as we are divided. There is hope for next year, Do not listen to Synbad, have some enthusiasm for next year. Make sure you all sign up, the club needs you now more than ever before. And I have received messages from the mods about attacking posters. I would like to say I am only attacking Synbad, because he attacks so many others. And I do not think what I am doing is worse than what Synbad does to others. When he stops, I will stop attacking him. And Synbad, please stop complaining to the mods. YOu mocked Jarusa's stats/view, I mocked your view. An eye for an eye. Stop whinging to the mods. Don't like a taste of your own medicine do you?

After seeing Riccuito last night and his reaction to Pickett against Biglands it consolidated my opinion that Kouta is not the right choice for captain. While there is no stand out in the rest of the team, I agree that we should be trying things, taking a risk. We know what we have with Kouta as a captain, but we don't know what we have with the others. It's time to find out.

This may be from left field a little, but I wouldn't mind seeing a dual captaincy - Waite and Stevens perhaps. I think Waite is the choice moving forward but the load might be too much initially, so why don't we get Waite and Stevens to share it for a year or two, then eventually Waite can take over.

Let's just try something Carlton - please!!!!!

I don't think Waite's ready yet.

actually think French would be a good one to try also. Now as verbs is so smugly trying to piont out the world will not end but discussions that are about really important stuff (like when the world will end) take place in the Warren thread.

here we are talking about Carlton, and whether we should try something different or more of the same. I think it is (in the context of a site about Carlton) an important question.

Verbs should stick to the Warren thread where true issues are discussed and leave us to talk about Carlton (which is the most important thing and isn't).

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I agree, which is why I suggested dual captaincy with Stevens. But I would imagine many people thought Kernahan wasn't ready when he was handed the captaincy. I'm in no way comparing Waite to Kernahan, but some people can surprise you. Some people will rise to the challenge, they don't necessarily seek things out, but will just "deal" with things as they fall their way. Waite has continually done that on the field over the last few years, he's risen to the challenges, he played an unbelieveable game after his dad died, he continues to improve, he kills himself on the field, kills himself for the ball and the jumper. Why don't we see if he will rise to the challenge of the captaincy??

What do we have to lose?

I said this in a thread earlier in the year....

A leader/captain to me is someone who can turn to his team, when the chips are down, and say "C'mon lads! Lift your heads and follow me".
He should also be someone who is a mentor for the younger blokes, give them advice when they need it, encourage them when they are playing well and not playing well and let them know they have done wrong when they have done wrong.
They also should have a presence about them.

Do we have anyone on our list who is like that?

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Does Kouta deserve the captaincy? If you look at his CV it would show his best suited for it!
* B+F numerous times including this years
* All Australian
* State of origin rep
* Premiership player
I liked his speech on B+F count which might account for something.

It seems like he is the best suited because of his success. When look a captain you see the face of their club! However is it time to bring in a young prospect capt? I actually think we should have a rotating captaincy for a while after Kouta! Because no one else on the team deserves it! Harsh but very true. Would like to see Waite capt in 5 years though just because he will be a star and because Carlton is in his blood and has come through the junior ranks

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

What medicine????

Youre insignificant .. i only read the first line and the last line and i gave it an F-

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I dont think the best player is necessarily the best leader... at some clubs they are .. but not in our situation...

I really believe the type of leadership we REQUIRE is the type that will pick the side up when its down.. point the kids in the right direction and rally the troops with some rear guard offence where its necessary,
At the moment were so fragile on the field that when something is going against us.. we drop our bundle and fall to pieces.. (Check out our percentage and the beatings we have copped)

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad i agree that a captain should mentor and coach for the younger players as well as the rest, but the tricky part is do we have this type of player in our ranks now who is ready to step up and take the next step?. Waite, Walker, Thornton, Stevens, are all names that have been thrown up but they are either still learning and developing or they havent been leading either. Kouta hasnt been under any pressure to retain the captaincy. We havent got a person on the list who deserves it more than Kouta. Hopefully in a few years after Kouta retires Waite, Stevens, and Thornton would of taken the next step and would be ready to take the captaincy!

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

i just strongly believe we have to move forward.
We cant have Kouta captain just coz...
We need to work out whats what and who is who...
The only way we can do that is thrust a couple of players into that role.

Did StKilda know Riewoldt wouldnt be ready and Ball / Kosi would???

You just place them over the bunsen burner and hope they come through with the goods.

By not doing anything.... youre not soing anything.

Its like laying in your bed waiting for Hades to come...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Since Kernahan retired, the title of captain has been a given out as a 'reward for service'. We need the change this NOW .. it is an indication of the culture that still remains at the club. I'd rather see us put our faith in someone younger who may take us to the next level, even if they fail. Its better than treading water and taking the conservative option. Look at where that has gotten us...

Totally agree showbag - our captaincy has been 'reward for service' since Kerna.

Kouta's leadership was atrocious at times - I went to just a couple of training sessions this year and he is quieter than a mouse. As for the actual games, well have a close look at what happens at half time in the game against Ess to see who the 'real' leaders of this club are. I AM a Kouta fan and always have been - but NOT as captain.

So in summary,
It's a reward for service
We are unable to initiate change
We are broke and can't change the printing for marketting........

My take when I read this article was none of these...My reading between the lines went as follows...........

Firstly ASSUMING the article is true...I read it as a strong chance that Lance, Fev, Campo and Lappin are all about to get some sort of boot, whether it's out of the club or within. My guess would be Fev may be gone. He's the 2nd biggest face of the club and to get rid of Fev and demote Kouta is a huge risk. (Let's face it whether we like it or not, these decisions have an effect across the club and not JUST isolated to the classical on field role of the captain)

It also says that one of the "scared cows" ...form a supporter's point of view ...Kouta will stil be there so we are still a "great club" whilst the huge changes are occurring.

It also says that it's Kouta's last year, so whilst we are respectful of our greats we are planning for changes.

It also says that the "new" leadership group will all be young ...and they'll have to be as they are the only ones left.

It also says that 2006 is still a learning year (as far as the MC is concerned)

We'll know long before Feb if these are the cases.......and if they are, I don't think they fit into any of the three summation reasons given.

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“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee

I hope you are right

or Kouta reappointed.

lance/campo/lappin retained

fev traded


leadership group Kouta lance Campo.

great

big big changes.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

It all says that we will not teach kids to step up to responsibility and accountability but instead we will rely on the few .. and keep that vibe going through the club no matter how shithopuse the few are at leading.....

We should be getting rid of the blokes that led us down the garden path... thrust responsibility upon Stevens.. cos were paying him for it.. and organise sub leadership groups to spread out the responsibility over the rest of the playing group.. so its not about one man and his two mates.. its about collective responsibility!!!!!

Thats why were not going to head anywhere.. Kouta and Campo and Lance are the safe option to nowhere special....

Now i know why the Saints and other clubs were so shit for so long...

No ideas.. just safe (even though safe in our case is still shithouse)./....

We should do what the gridiron teams do... defensive captain... midfield captain and forward line captain.. and they can each have duties and all under Stevens.....

Spread the load and the responsibility and allow the kids to ciut their teeth in an environment that they are accountable in.. instead of waiting for what Kouta Campo are doing....

How weak is that??????!!!!!

We go up that road at this moment of time we will never get out of this.....

I want the MC and the Board to show leadership off the ground...about leadership on the ground!!!!


Stop this environment of mediocrity where our leasders drag down the others to their very lowest common denominator!!!!

We need leaders to step up and bring the others up with them...

That will only come with collective responsibility and a feeling of pride in achievement.


Kouta is an ordinary captain...... his leadership breeds perpetual mediocrity....!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.