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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:49 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
SnickerS wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
I know our record isn't good. But at some point we have to separate Rogers' work from Hughes' work. Rogers' picks have been far less speculative than Hughes' project type specials (Bootsma, Hampson etc).


It's hard to separate as they formed a "recruiting team".

Don't tell me Rogers and the others had totally other players in mind but Hughes went and did his own thing.
They were together for a long time working in recruitment so there would have been a level of similarity in their selections.

And Rogers' selections haven't been great so far at all.

Sorry em ... not feeling it.


So you can't tell me the last 2 drafts haven't had a different focus and he has recruited footballers and not athletes? Additionally Rogers has been recruiting players with the right attitude. Half our issue now is our players don't have the right mentality/attitude.

I'm not saying Rogers has nailed his drafts. I'm saying I can see a stark change in approach.


And never underestimate the influence Ratten had on recruiting in the Hughes years. Whilst Rogers was in a team with Hughes, I can't see the 2ic being able to overrule the senior coach (see Rowe).


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:00 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18066
SnickerS wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
I know our record isn't good. But at some point we have to separate Rogers' work from Hughes' work. Rogers' picks have been far less speculative than Hughes' project type specials (Bootsma, Hampson etc).


It's hard to separate as they formed a "recruiting team".

Don't tell me Rogers and the others had totally other players in mind but Hughes went and did his own thing.


That's exactly how it works. It's pointless having 6 recruiters and have their views contaminated by each other.
The recruiting team have their particular field (VFL, TAC, WAFL etc) and they form a list each. The head recruiter then makes selections based on his own views taking into consideration the input of his team.

It's easy to bag the recruitment team as a whole (which some posters are expert at) but the reality is, we could have 1, 2 or more of the best scouts on our books but if the head recruiter doesn't take their views into account, it's wasted.
I'd suggest that's how Rogers got the job. They've probably looked at the lists he's compiled in recent years and they realised he had a better understanding of the talent available and what's required.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 1472
emtwenty wrote:
SnickerS wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
I know our record isn't good. But at some point we have to separate Rogers' work from Hughes' work. Rogers' picks have been far less speculative than Hughes' project type specials (Bootsma, Hampson etc).


It's hard to separate as they formed a "recruiting team".

Don't tell me Rogers and the others had totally other players in mind but Hughes went and did his own thing.
They were together for a long time working in recruitment so there would have been a level of similarity in their selections.

And Rogers' selections haven't been great so far at all.

Sorry em ... not feeling it.


So you can't tell me the last 2 drafts haven't had a different focus and he has recruited footballers and not athletes? Additionally Rogers has been recruiting players with the right attitude. Half our issue now is our players don't have the right mentality/attitude.

I'm not saying Rogers has nailed his drafts. I'm saying I can see a stark change in approach.


And never underestimate the influence Ratten had on recruiting in the Hughes years. Whilst Rogers was in a team with Hughes, I can't see the 2ic being able to overrule the senior coach (see Rowe).


The last 2 drafts haven't had the Hughes "project" players your'e 100 % correct. Rogers has gone the route of selecting traditional footballers. Problem is the ones hes selected would have been good 10 years ago. Holman and Graham especially are far too slow for the modern game. And they weren't exactly pics on the 70s. Cripps may turn out to be an amazing Jobe Watson type player, but the %'s are against that happening these days... heavily against it i'd say.

Stark contrast in recruiting styles.... doesn't seem to be able to pick out the specials though.
And is it really him ...or has the Club given him a directive on player types... who knows.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:21 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 am
Posts: 1770
Blue Vain wrote:
It's easy to bag the recruitment team as a whole (which some posters are expert at).


The club are the ones who have criticised the support team around Rogers. Rogers has already made changes to his team and will focus on employing recruiters who have football knowledge/experience on the field. More changes will be made.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:32 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:15 pm
Posts: 4842
emtwenty wrote:
SnickerS wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
I know our record isn't good. But at some point we have to separate Rogers' work from Hughes' work. Rogers' picks have been far less speculative than Hughes' project type specials (Bootsma, Hampson etc).


It's hard to separate as they formed a "recruiting team".

Don't tell me Rogers and the others had totally other players in mind but Hughes went and did his own thing.
They were together for a long time working in recruitment so there would have been a level of similarity in their selections.

And Rogers' selections haven't been great so far at all.

Sorry em ... not feeling it.


So you can't tell me the last 2 drafts haven't had a different focus and he has recruited footballers and not athletes?


Bit of a myth based on selective memory and personal bias and, further more, it's not the point. We've picked both 'athletes' and 'pure footballers' under Hughes depending on needs and circumstances. We've been unsuccessful at both. It is probably part of the problem in that we have stuck so rigidly to an intention rather than being flexible to suit what's actually available. Rogers' 'fans' really only have Menzel to go on if they are being serious. :cool:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18066
Clayman wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
It's easy to bag the recruitment team as a whole (which some posters are expert at).


The club are the ones who have criticised the support team around Rogers. Rogers has already made changes to his team and will focus on employing recruiters who have football knowledge/experience on the field. More changes will be made.


Which changes has he made?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:29 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 am
Posts: 1770
Blue Vain wrote:
Clayman wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
It's easy to bag the recruitment team as a whole (which some posters are expert at).


The club are the ones who have criticised the support team around Rogers. Rogers has already made changes to his team and will focus on employing recruiters who have football knowledge/experience on the field. More changes will be made.


Which changes has he made?


There have been at least 3 new faces added to the team

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:46 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
3AW Football ‏@3AWisfootball 1m

Mick Warner: 'I've heard Carlton are having a RED HOT go at two GWS star kids at the end of the year' #AFL

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:51 pm 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
Effes wrote:
3AW Football ‏@3AWisfootball 1m

Mick Warner: 'I've heard Carlton are having a RED HOT go at two GWS star kids at the end of the year' #AFL


Great, but given the current structures with drafts, trading etc and our poor list how are we going to make that happen?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:57 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am
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Effes wrote:
3AW Football ‏@3AWisfootball 1m

Mick Warner: 'I've heard Carlton are having a RED HOT go at two GWS star kids at the end of the year' #AFL

Lunch at raheen always does the trick...


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:56 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:48 pm
Posts: 4500
Location: Perth
Would you leave GWS and come to Carlton at the moment? What do we offer?

Quite a dilemma for us I would think.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:57 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
Someone had mentioned on CSC Treloar and Jaksch were coming to carlton but that was weeks ago and I have no idea of the poster's credibility.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:00 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am
Posts: 28227
emtwenty wrote:
Someone had mentioned on CSC Treloar and Jaksch were coming to carlton but that was weeks ago and I have no idea of the poster's credibility.


John Barker's rubbing his hands together...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:19 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21623
Location: North of the border
MPH78 wrote:
Would you leave GWS and come to Carlton at the moment? What do we offer?

Quite a dilemma for us I would think.

You be assured of getting a regular game
places in the starting 22 at GWS are going to get pretty tight at the moment they are still rotaing players getting game time into them

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 am
Posts: 1770
Sydney Blue wrote:
MPH78 wrote:
Would you leave GWS and come to Carlton at the moment? What do we offer?

Quite a dilemma for us I would think.

You be assured of getting a regular game
places in the starting 22 at GWS are going to get pretty tight at the moment they are still rotaing players getting game time into them


This :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
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Location: threeohfivethree
Captaincy?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:33 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 am
Posts: 1770
GWS wrote:
Captaincy?


and Coach?

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It is not as bad as you are lead to believe.......it is %$#^& worse!!!


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:46 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 pm
Posts: 7440
Brock and Carrazzo need to spend the majority of their remaining days at the Northern Blues

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:08 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
And Tuohy needs to spend some time in the 2s as well.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:12 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm
Posts: 17236
emtwenty wrote:
And Tuohy needs to spend some time in the 2s as well.


Finally! Should have happened at Rnd 1 given his woeful pre-season. Forget his contract...i would trade him.


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