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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:21 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
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I thought he was pretty average for the NBs. Can't kick.


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 Post subject: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:49 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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gerry atric wrote:
Rocky Henderson wrote:
Warnock is still on 600k until the end of 2015 I believe.

I see Sewel got droped from the Dawks line up. He must be done with Harthorn.
Here's a hyperthetical that's surley going to get TC up in arms..... Sewell as a delisted free agent next year....... :donk:

Surely Warnock couldn't be on that sort if dough....no wonder Eddie Bettes wanted more money, what idiot signed off on Warnock's contract?

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Last edited by moshe25 on Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:18 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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moshe25 wrote:
gerry atric wrote:
Rocky Henderson wrote:
Warnock is still on 600k until the end of 2015 I believe.

I see Sewel got droped from the Dawks line up. He must be done with Harthorn.
Here's a hyperthetical that's surley going to get TC up in arms..... Sewell as a delisted free agent next year....... :donk:

Surely Warnock couldn't be on that sort if dough....no wonder Eddie Bettes wanted more money, what idiot signed off on Warnock's contract?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:08 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
Effes wrote:
They only topped up with Lake when they were actually right near the top and would have spent SFA to get him.

Carlton went after Thomas while the club is in no man's land, committed big dollars and lost a lowish pick at the same time.

All clubs make list management errors, but Hawthorn don't make monumental blunders like Carlton made with Thomas.

The key is...do you ever see Hawthorn overpaying?



Firstly, I was not a fan of recruiting Thomas. Bottom line is that he's the same age as Gibbs, was not even expected to play this year and had no pre-season. Happy to give him next year to really judge him. Could still give us 5 good years if the body holds. Woulld I have preferred we didn't go after him? Yes! Would I have preferred we used a little extra cash to pay Betts? Yes!

Thomas is so far down the chain of what you call "monumental blunders" it's not funny

* Ratts chasing after McLean like he was being hounded by 15 clubs and giving up pick 12 is a monumental flower up
* Ratts chasing after Warnock and paying him 3/4 of whatever Thomas is on. Another MFU
* Lucas over Fyffe............FMD
* Watson over Darling
* McCarthy, Mitchell, Russell, Temay, Bower, Hampson, Benjamin, Austin etc etc etc. They're the big scale monumental blunders that Hawthorn don't make and we made.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:13 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Posts: 3561
GWS wrote:
Lake
Gibson
Hale
Spangher
Mc Evoy
Burgoyne

6 out of 22 came from other clubs.

Lake, Gibson and Burgoyne came to the club on good money but probably slightly less than they might have earned elsewhere because of the prospect of playing in premierships.

Hale, Spangher and Mc Evoy are handy at best but fill a role.

The key to Hawthorn is they have a core of leaders in Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and Roughead who have been at the club all their careers and would die for each other.

We don't have one player in that category at the moment.

Gibbs (and possibly Henderson) are the only ones I can see who could be that type but two just isn't enough.

Somehow we need to find a group of young guys within about a three year period who can grow up together. They need to be midfielders and key position players whose quality as players is beyond question allowing them to form a unit that drags the club along with them.

If we can find five very very good footballers with great work ethics and unquestionable hardness, get them to 150 games each, add ten good players from the draft and then top up with half a dozen ring ins to fill the gaps then we're a chance.

Shouldn't be too hard. :lol:


And we had Alfred E. Neuman who couldn't give a frog's fat arse about leadership. Judd would do it all. There's half the reason we are so far behind other clubs.
But hey, according to some, MM and DT have sent the club backwards. Go figure

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:22 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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99prelim wrote:
GWS wrote:
Lake
Gibson
Hale
Spangher
Mc Evoy
Burgoyne

6 out of 22 came from other clubs.

Lake, Gibson and Burgoyne came to the club on good money but probably slightly less than they might have earned elsewhere because of the prospect of playing in premierships.

Hale, Spangher and Mc Evoy are handy at best but fill a role.

The key to Hawthorn is they have a core of leaders in Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and Roughead who have been at the club all their careers and would die for each other.

We don't have one player in that category at the moment.

Gibbs (and possibly Henderson) are the only ones I can see who could be that type but two just isn't enough.

Somehow we need to find a group of young guys within about a three year period who can grow up together. They need to be midfielders and key position players whose quality as players is beyond question allowing them to form a unit that drags the club along with them.

If we can find five very very good footballers with great work ethics and unquestionable hardness, get them to 150 games each, add ten good players from the draft and then top up with half a dozen ring ins to fill the gaps then we're a chance.

Shouldn't be too hard. :lol:


And we had Alfred E. Neuman who couldn't give a frog's fat arse about leadership. Judd would do it all. There's half the reason we are so far behind other clubs.
But hey, according to some, MM and DT have sent the club backwards. Go figure


:lol:

Two years of MM and all we've got is DT.

Go figure.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
99prelim wrote:
Effes wrote:
They only topped up with Lake when they were actually right near the top and would have spent SFA to get him.

Carlton went after Thomas while the club is in no man's land, committed big dollars and lost a lowish pick at the same time.

All clubs make list management errors, but Hawthorn don't make monumental blunders like Carlton made with Thomas.

The key is...do you ever see Hawthorn overpaying?



Firstly, I was not a fan of recruiting Thomas. Bottom line is that he's the same age as Gibbs, was not even expected to play this year and had no pre-season. Happy to give him next year to really judge him. Could still give us 5 good years if the body holds. Woulld I have preferred we didn't go after him? Yes! Would I have preferred we used a little extra cash to pay Betts? Yes!

Thomas is so far down the chain of what you call "monumental blunders" it's not funny

* Ratts chasing after McLean like he was being hounded by 15 clubs and giving up pick 12 is a monumental flower up
* Ratts chasing after Warnock and paying him 3/4 of whatever Thomas is on. Another MFU
* Lucas over Fyffe............FMD
* Watson over Darling
* McCarthy, Mitchell, Russell, Temay, Bower, Hampson, Benjamin, Austin etc etc etc. They're the big scale monumental blunders that Hawthorn don't make and we made.


Same age as Gibbs? DOB 15/3/89 and 21/6/87.

Why do some people always make it Ratten Vs MM? Battle of the egos. Both made monumental blunders...they need to be minimised! More Doc trades!

Many clubs passed over Fyfe....he was a raw skinny kid with talent and someone who scouts were unsure about in terms of would he put muscle on and what position would he play.

It will be interesting to see what is offered for Jaksch given someone like Gunston was traded for a 2nd rounder (+ some later picks)...hopefully if he nominates Carlton it makes the deal easier (like Doc).

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:29 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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You're discussing facts with someone who compared us getting Malthouse to Fremantle getting Lyon.

Forgetaboutit.


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 Post subject: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:02 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 2125
There are two issues with Thomas, one is that he has had serious injury and there is a risk that he won't be capable again of the form we have paid for,and what is the strategy? Surely you go for Thomas because you are confident he will be the gun he was in 2010 and because we will be staring thru our premiership window when he is at his peak, ie over the next three years. I have always been a fan of DT but i just can't see what the strategy is. Mick wanted him so presumably he reckons he will help put us into flag contention in the next few years. I don't think there is a hope in hell of that


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:11 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:36 pm
Posts: 1057
Location: melbourne
Hawks gave up their first rounder for gunsten..
We need in no order,
1. Tall key forward
2. Tall key defender
3. 4/5 mids who can kick
Maybe pick 6 may land us Lever or Durdin??
Can our second rounder get us Jaksch??
Can Cripps and Buckley step up??
Will Giles step up and show something next year?? (6-10 games).
Can we land another second rounder through, Robinson or Garlett?? Probably not, wishful thinking..
Maybe look at players like, Membrey and mckenize..
Hopefully Menzel can push into the midfield and Membrey may take that medium forward roll???
Could we land Mckenzie with a second rounder?? Would add another quality midfielder...
Docherty and Everitt working out so far, think Thomas will produce some good footy not sure about the coin though...
Far too many list cloggers..
Ellard, Lucas, Armfield etc...


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:25 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
Effes wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Effes wrote:
They only topped up with Lake when they were actually right near the top and would have spent SFA to get him.

Carlton went after Thomas while the club is in no man's land, committed big dollars and lost a lowish pick at the same time.

All clubs make list management errors, but Hawthorn don't make monumental blunders like Carlton made with Thomas.

The key is...do you ever see Hawthorn overpaying?



Firstly, I was not a fan of recruiting Thomas. Bottom line is that he's the same age as Gibbs, was not even expected to play this year and had no pre-season. Happy to give him next year to really judge him. Could still give us 5 good years if the body holds. Woulld I have preferred we didn't go after him? Yes! Would I have preferred we used a little extra cash to pay Betts? Yes!

Thomas is so far down the chain of what you call "monumental blunders" it's not funny

* Ratts chasing after McLean like he was being hounded by 15 clubs and giving up pick 12 is a monumental flower up
* Ratts chasing after Warnock and paying him 3/4 of whatever Thomas is on. Another MFU
* Lucas over Fyffe............FMD
* Watson over Darling
* McCarthy, Mitchell, Russell, Temay, Bower, Hampson, Benjamin, Austin etc etc etc. They're the big scale monumental blunders that Hawthorn don't make and we made.


Same age as Gibbs? DOB 15/3/89 and 21/6/87.

Why do some people always make it Ratten Vs MM? Battle of the egos. Both made monumental blunders...they need to be minimised! More Doc trades!

Many clubs passed over Fyfe....he was a raw skinny kid with talent and someone who scouts were unsure about in terms of would he put muscle on and what position would he play.

It will be interesting to see what is offered for Jaksch given someone like Gunston was traded for a 2nd rounder (+ some later picks)...hopefully if he nominates Carlton it makes the deal easier (like Doc).


Meant to say Murphy, not Gibbs. Wrong draft year.
Agree wholeheartedly about minimising future blunders. Maclean and Warnock still stick in my gut though
Hopefully, Doc and Everitt prove their worth next year.
Jacksh is a second rounder trade for sure, maybe our second rounder + Robbo for Jacksh and a swap of first round picks.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:56 am 
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Ken Hunter
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I'd forget about anything except - who do we need to bring to the club in terms of leadership/desire/ruthlessness/ferocity? Bring them in, build an ethos around them, make each Carlton player work their arse off to reach the pinnacle, then worry about list management.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:29 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Waite confirmed with us this morning that he is leaving.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:34 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Dominator_7 wrote:
Waite confirmed with us this morning that he is leaving.


The club's "leadership IQ" just increased a few percentage points.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:42 am 
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Bruce Doull
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GWS wrote:
Dominator_7 wrote:
Waite confirmed with us this morning that he is leaving.


The club's "leadership IQ" just increased a few percentage points.


And the "potential to frustrate own supporters" index relaxed a fair bit too.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:47 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am
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Do we get a compo pick for losing Waite?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:49 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:29 pm
Posts: 7074
gerry atric wrote:
Do we get a compo pick for losing Waite?

Doubtful


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:53 am 
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Bruce Doull
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gerry atric wrote:
Do we get a compo pick for losing Waite?


We should get one for just playing him....

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:02 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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gerry atric wrote:
Do we get a compo pick for losing Waite?


Nup.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:04 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 1:35 pm
Posts: 344
With Waite gone, how many spots do we have free on our list? Add to that the maybes of Lucas, Garlett and Robinson and we could have room on our list. I had heard that in previous trade periods we couldn't do any more as we had to commit to Rookie upgrades (Bell, Curnow, Levi etc.) and new players via the draft leaving not much room above and beyond 1 or 2 additions....


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