Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Wed Jul 09, 2025 9:35 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1854 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82 ... 93  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:35 am 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:57 pm
Posts: 5338
Location: Melbourne
Reckon Ahmed Saad might be picked up with a late ND pick.
A forward line with Saad, Casboult, Jones, Menzel and Henderson / Jaksch suddenly looks pretty competitive

_________________
James Hird and Essendon* FC - #FOREVERDRUGCHEATS


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:58 am 
Offline
formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 4777
Wouldnt Saad and Tutt be similar players?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:16 am 
Offline
Garry Crane
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:48 pm
Posts: 242
Location: Narangba Qld
2 picks in the PSD
They have someone else in mind also... Only Synners will know who

_________________
We are Carlton....F##K the rest!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:23 am 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2044
The run and carry and line breaking potential of Dick impressed me


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:23 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:37 pm
Posts: 1932
We need a forward 50 tackling machine.

That is all...

_________________
Koperek.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:32 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24655
Location: Kaloyasena
kezza wrote:
There has been a huge turnover of players on the list over the last 2 years, and there had to be.
For the first time in years i have some confidence that the club is finally moving in the right direction.
MM wont bring us a premiership in his time with Carlton, i hope i am wrong, but he will certainly set up the list and leave it in a much better position than when he arrived.



I think he is doing what Barassi did with the Swans back in the early 90s.
Setting us up for the future.

:smile:


Hi there Michael Jezz :wink:

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:05 pm 
Offline
Serge Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:41 pm
Posts: 980
Hear hear! :clap:

kezza wrote:
There has been a huge turnover of players on the list over the last 2 years, and there had to be.
For the first time in years i have some confidence that the club is finally moving in the right direction.
MM wont bring us a premiership in his time with Carlton, i hope i am wrong, but he will certainly set up the list and leave it in a much better position than when he arrived.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:11 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25552
Location: Bondi Beach
TheSwan wrote:
We need a forward 50 tackling machine.

That is all...


That and an A grade mid will do me fine.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:12 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25552
Location: Bondi Beach
...and a replacement for Warnock

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:30 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 33043
Location: Back in reality
TheSwan wrote:
We need a forward 50 tackling machine.

That is all...

Actually we're also going to be looking for Lachie and Kreuzer to make up the gap of about 2.5 contested marks a game that we've lost from Jarrad, and Levi and Kreuzer to make up the 2.5 marks inside 50 a game he provided.

What kept us in games throughout the season was that while we were in the bottom 6 in the competition for contested possessions, we still won a good chunk of clearances (Gibbs, Murphy, Judd, Carrazzo, McLean), and we took grabs inside 50 when we actually got it in there.

Having a dead weight midfielder like Robinson out of the mix is going to help with our retention of possession and delivery inside 50: per game he managed 19.9 disposals, 3 clangers, 2.33 clearances, 3.8 inside 50s and 1.83 scoring involvements (bear in mind I'm note counting all scoring assists, just goals).

Lead the team in average effective disposals and top 3 for average inside 50s but couldn't outpoint Gibbs, Judd, Yarran or Everitt in scoring involvements and barely outpointed Thomas & Murphy. And that's not counting the forwards. Having players like Walker, Thomas and Buckley involved more in that aspect of play is going to be huge for us, but it'd be nice if we have some of our blokes catch it more often, particularly in 50/50 contests. On last year's form, only Waite, Casboult and Jones are likely to do so consistently, so improvement is needed.

Back to forward 50 pressure and scoring opportunities there within, that was mostly provided last season by Menzel, Ellard and Thomas. Menzel did a really good job of pressuring players while being available as a lead target, Thomas did OK with a fantastic work rate, and Ellard was basically there to apply pressure (yes I'm predictably going to point out Ellard but bear with me).

Ellard is a weak link to our scoring movement of the same ilk as Mitch's kicks into 50, Lachie's contested work and the general lack of goals and marking presence from our rucks. The only statistic Ellard lead the forward group in was tackles. The three other statistics he didn't come last in for the forward group were scores, where he edged out Thomas (our high HF), possessions, where he edged out Menzel and Casboult and inside 50s, where he again edged out Casboult and Menzel (our deep 50 targets).

Waite's forward 50 pressure helped make our forward line function better, and Ellard basically wiped up for Garlett's laziness and Casboult being knackered from carrying the forward line. Next season we need to demand more of Menzel and his smaller assistants to create pressure, but our first choice small forward must not be coming in at the expense of goal scoring threat, so that's a no to both Ellard and Armfield. That's why I put Buckley in my lineup and built a HB rotation without Yarran.

Having Yarran, Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Buckley, Thomas, Menzel taking turns terrorising the opposition backs and having players like Walker, Thomas and Yarran more involved in the inside 50s will allow our talls to secure a few more 50/50 contests and easy contests due to quicker kicks in that are more often on the advantage side and will create a positive feedback loop by leaving the marking forward fresher and able to execute more pressure acts. Jones of course is plan B if Lachie, Casboult & Kreuzer don't do the job in terms of marks inside 50.

So in summary we need all of our forwards to scrub up on their weaknesses, and we need to not bring players in just to hit one statistical category alone because that's not a role player: that's a liability. Same goes for our midfielders.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:45 pm 
Offline
formerly King Kenny
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20076
bluechampion wrote:
I could see them shifting McLean onto the rookie list ala Scotland, and keeping him around that way.

Otherwise the choices are hard...

Robbo - did improve as a footballer this year, but that's not why he might be let go.

Lucas - still young and has some upside, but hasn't come on.

Ellard - disciplined and hard-at-it; a bit of a Malthouse favourite. But he's basically hit his ceiling as a footballer.


McLean is Senior list or gone


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:07 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25552
Location: Bondi Beach
jimmae wrote:
TheSwan wrote:
We need a forward 50 tackling machine.

That is all...

Actually we're also going to be looking for Lachie and Kreuzer to make up the gap of about 2.5 contested marks a game that we've lost from Jarrad, and Levi and Kreuzer to make up the 2.5 marks inside 50 a game he provided.

What kept us in games throughout the season was that while we were in the bottom 6 in the competition for contested possessions, we still won a good chunk of clearances (Gibbs, Murphy, Judd, Carrazzo, McLean), and we took grabs inside 50 when we actually got it in there.

Having a dead weight midfielder like Robinson out of the mix is going to help with our retention of possession and delivery inside 50: per game he managed 19.9 disposals, 3 clangers, 2.33 clearances, 3.8 inside 50s and 1.83 scoring involvements (bear in mind I'm note counting all scoring assists, just goals).

Lead the team in average effective disposals and top 3 for average inside 50s but couldn't outpoint Gibbs, Judd, Yarran or Everitt in scoring involvements and barely outpointed Thomas & Murphy. And that's not counting the forwards. Having players like Walker, Thomas and Buckley involved more in that aspect of play is going to be huge for us, but it'd be nice if we have some of our blokes catch it more often, particularly in 50/50 contests. On last year's form, only Waite, Casboult and Jones are likely to do so consistently, so improvement is needed.

Back to forward 50 pressure and scoring opportunities there within, that was mostly provided last season by Menzel, Ellard and Thomas. Menzel did a really good job of pressuring players while being available as a lead target, Thomas did OK with a fantastic work rate, and Ellard was basically there to apply pressure (yes I'm predictably going to point out Ellard but bear with me).

Ellard is a weak link to our scoring movement of the same ilk as Mitch's kicks into 50, Lachie's contested work and the general lack of goals and marking presence from our rucks. The only statistic Ellard lead the forward group in was tackles. The three other statistics he didn't come last in for the forward group were scores, where he edged out Thomas (our high HF), possessions, where he edged out Menzel and Casboult and inside 50s, where he again edged out Casboult and Menzel (our deep 50 targets).

Waite's forward 50 pressure helped make our forward line function better, and Ellard basically wiped up for Garlett's laziness and Casboult being knackered from carrying the forward line. Next season we need to demand more of Menzel and his smaller assistants to create pressure, but our first choice small forward must not be coming in at the expense of goal scoring threat, so that's a no to both Ellard and Armfield. That's why I put Buckley in my lineup and built a HB rotation without Yarran.

Having Yarran, Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Buckley, Thomas, Menzel taking turns terrorising the opposition backs and having players like Walker, Thomas and Yarran more involved in the inside 50s will allow our talls to secure a few more 50/50 contests and easy contests due to quicker kicks in that are more often on the advantage side and will create a positive feedback loop by leaving the marking forward fresher and able to execute more pressure acts. Jones of course is plan B if Lachie, Casboult & Kreuzer don't do the job in terms of marks inside 50.

So in summary we need all of our forwards to scrub up on their weaknesses, and we need to not bring players in just to hit one statistical category alone because that's not a role player: that's a liability. Same goes for our midfielders.


Good summary jimmae. Thanks for taking the time.
The point about Levi carrying the forwardline till exhaustion is a good one because it was obvious he tired many a time when having a shot at goal.

When I agreed about the need for a tackling machine, I didnt want a one trick pony. I want a star who does have a defensive side to his game. Remember Nick Stevens. Wish he had a more defensive minset coz he would've become a great if he did.

Warnock is our one trick pony. Tap ruckman.
Ellard Brock Carrazzo Graham even Curnow and I'd add Tuohy are our one paced ponies. Curnow has an engine worth 2 players and a very good tagger and Tuohy fills a spot in the backline and has a good kick on him when fit and in form.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:15 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 33043
Location: Back in reality
Harsh on Carrazzo, Curnow and Tuohy I think there bondi. Any of those names except Ellard and maybe Curnow have shown themselves to have a few tricks like goal scoring, defensive work, contested work, good ability to spread.

Put any one of them in Ellard's role and I think you'd get a better performance out of them.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:14 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 2079
Ellard and Curnow are ordinary. They both try hard but have too many limitations. We need to aspire to more than this if we seriously want to build this list for premiership contention in the next few years.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:03 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 am
Posts: 1770
Dominator_7 wrote:
Reckon Ahmed Saad might be picked up with a late ND pick.
A forward line with Saad, Casboult, Jones, Menzel and Henderson / Jaksch suddenly looks pretty competitive


I would love to see us get this Saad - think I am alone on this one, but its not the first time.

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=34342

_________________
It is not as bad as you are lead to believe.......it is %$#^& worse!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:04 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 33043
Location: Back in reality
WOW wrote:
Ellard and Curnow are ordinary. They both try hard but have too many limitations. We need to aspire to more than this if we seriously want to build this list for premiership contention in the next few years.

IMO, Curnow 3 years ago and Curnow at the end of this season is like night and day; much more complete player. Worth persisting with and will probably be in our first 22.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:59 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:20 am
Posts: 1200
Location: Adelaide
Jimmae, when you say Jones is plan B if Henderson, Casboult and Kruezer don't fire, are you running with a two tall set up? Obviously assuming that one of Bolt and Kruezer are taking the ruck duties at any given time.

I've always thought of Malthouse preferring a 3 tall (two stay at home and a resting ruck) set up, even if at Carlton he hasn't had the cattle to pull it off.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:41 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 33043
Location: Back in reality
You've got Everitt, Jaksch and Kreuzer in the mix there too. It's effectively a 3 tall setup, and we don't need less smalls when we have Walker and Menzel already there as targets.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:07 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2772
Kruezer takes the ruck. That is all. (Casboult providing some relief while Kruezer rests forward)
- Wood & Warnock = Bullants back-up.

3 key forwards:
Casboult deep, Lachie CHF and hopefully Jones leading out. (Jones will need to prove himself in the pre-season)
Watson = back up (unless he pushes his way in ...which would be great)

Small/Med Forwards
Menzel playing the Jimmy Bartel role (crumbing, leading, marking, tackling +stints in the middle)
Thomas defensive forward moving more to the midfield as his form/fitness allow
Bell crashing packs
- All non KPFs rotating into the middle (or roaming up the wings)
- All small/med forwards avging >4-5 tackles per match


Midfield rotations:
Gibbs, Murphy, Judd, Whiley, Cripps, (Thomas as form, fitness warrant)
Carrazzo, Curnow (tagging)
Graham, Holman
Really need fringe/young midfielders to step up this year. 3 elites is not enough.
- Perhaps Yarran, Walker, Menzel can help bring additional class through relief stints in the middle


Half backers:
Yarran, Simpson, Everitt, Buckley (moving up the wings & Yarran into the middle as well)
Walker, Touhy (rotating into the middle)
Sheehan, Docherty (not in the middle)

Key backs:
Jamo, Rowe, Jaksch, White (Utility), Giles

Swingmen:
- Henderson/Jaksch (although reluctantly mainly keep Hendo forward)
- White, Rowe, Everitt
- Yarran, Menzel, Walker, Buckley
- Docherty, Thomas (the surprise switch)

Pushing into the team (or more so) this year:
- Graham, Holman, Giles
- Jaksch, Cripps (should become regular seniors early on albeit with much development still to come)
- #19, #28...

BOTTOM LINE:
- We should be able to compete with most teams, with our best team on the park
- Need to significantly improve the consistency of our intensity. if we can win (all) the games against similar level teams and those below, and pinch a game or two from those above us, we give ourselves a chance to play finals even if we can't beat the top 4 teams.
- Our depth will still be tested. Hopefully this improves to help with the consistency given inevitable injuries at senior level.

Litmus test:
- We need to win at least 2 of our first 4 matches.
- We need to beat all of Richmond, Essendon*, Kangaroos, Adelaide and West Coast and Gold Coast at least once but ideally all times we play them. (6-8 wins)
- Pinch a game from Port, Geelong, Collingwood and/or Freo (1-2 wins)
- Not get blown away at all (no losses >45pts)
- Beat all the lower teams: Brisbane (who should improve dramatically this year with the return/recruiting of some key players), GWS, Melbourne, StK, Bulldogs (>5 wins)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2014
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:37 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 33043
Location: Back in reality
Not enough small/medium players sitting back in defence mate. :eek:

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1854 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82 ... 93  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bookie, Google [Bot], klaatu and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group