You know what happens when players properly execute an out of date game plan with effort and intent.

They either win or lose with dignity.

Don't give the players that out.

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T E A M

Baseless fantasy? No, Reality. It happened.

No coach can hide behind the recruiting manager. The buck stops with him.

The reason Jacobs wanted to go back to SA was because he saw no chance at Carlton - and why would he? We had Kreuzer, Hampson and we just TRADED PICKS for Warnock . I think that's a fair sign for a 20 year old kid.

But this was a rare case of compounding @#$%&! ups. Not only did we trade 2 picks for a block who was 3rd rate......to add to a 4th rate ruckman...... and an injury prone ruckman, we also chased away a potential AA ruckman in the process .

All this in the crucial pre-expansion team draft raids of 2010/11.

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Talking of list changes. We had a winning record of 50% in 2012 and Ratten was sacked. Malthouse was asleep that pre-season and we didn't have an active trade period. We finished 2013 with a 50% record. Then when Malthouse decided to flex his list changing muscles we finished 2014 with a 34% win record and currently sit at 20% in 2015.

Sad.

It works in cycles..

If you have a core group of players that have not been able to take the next step, they never will and it doesn't matter who you draft in, no one is there to lift the group. It's so difficult to find those core group of leaders and A graders.

Hawthorn have that core group which is why every player they bring in looks good. I don't know, somehow they pushed themselves into that good cycle and have run away with it.

We need to do somehow get early picks, choose leaders and keep trying until we find that group.

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Koperek.

that is exactly what I took from our performance against the pies ... it wouldn't have mattered who we had in ... however, a question has to be asked as to why the players had no intent as well? and that does fall at the manager etc.. but I also work on the philosophy that these guys are professionals getting paid well, so all "ill feelings" should be put aside and a professional and committed effort should be put in by all ... for that, none of the players have an excuse.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

we have a couple in Cripps and Docherty .. both seem to be of the "right stuff"

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

They need to take over the group and lift the bar otherwise they too become a victim. That's the awful part about being in the wrong cycle.

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Koperek.

They are. And if they were to have a Dangerfield (dare to dream) above them, they would develop faster.

Right now we have a bunch of blokes who play their own game styles rather than that of a team. It only takes a few who don't follow the right process and it crumbles.

Even Judd, as good as he is, is working solo. He gets it and runs, breaks tackles, does all the right things, but doesn't work within the team structure like Port or Hawthorn do.

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This makes me

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O say does that star spangled banner yet wave.

In their first 50 games each, Malthouse has managed 4 more wins than Pagan did.

Malthouse is only 5 wins from matching Pagan's total as Carlton coach.
Sadly we're heading toward that level of shitness again.

Pagan coached Carlton to 25 wins and 2 draws from 104 starts.
Malthouse has coached Carlton to 20 wins and 1 draw from 51 starts.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

These old blokes are flops.

Yep, we need a coach who is erect - I've been saying it for yonks

#GetVerbs
#Verbs4Coach

We're discussing shorts that can help with this over in Stuff

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I played golf with Jacobs at a Spirit of Carlton golf day. He told me he loved the players at Carlton but hated living in Melbourne.
I asked him if he would be seeking a trade back to Adelaide and he didn't commit either way but hey, if it suits the Ratten bashing, blame him anyway.

As for your point that the buck stops with the coach and not the recruiting manager, why did we just offload Shane Rogers? One poster tells us he was sacked because he picked Boekhorst. Surely by that rationale it must be Micks fault?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Well, if a TC poster says so.

If I was #4 ruckman in a new city I'd be pretty homesick too, given I would be playing at Preston Oval every week.

Had I been running onto the MCG in front of 80,000 and pulling in $350K however, I might think again.

If Mick chose BB and he turns out to be another Lucas, that decision will cost him dearly. But we should give the young man time. He could be a very good player.

Ratts was one of my favourite players of all time, but unfortunately he wasn't a coach.

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BB hasn't looked that bad at senior level so far actually.

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James Hird and Essendon* FC - #FOREVERDRUGCHEATS

I didn't see much of BB on Friday night.

Come to think of it, I didn't see much of anyone after half time due to the fact most of that time I was staring at bottom of a beer glass.

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You're a stayer!
I think I managed to watch up until 1/4 time then I was like "Apathetic Carlton has turned up tonight, time to do something, anything else."

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Why on earth are we discussing Ratten. Whatever capability as coach he was is irrelevant to how MM is going. For the record I thought at the time that we should never have appointed such an inexperienced coach with such inexperienced support staff without any proper process. All we have to do is assess all candidates without fear or favour and pick the one we think is best. We may not get it right, but we are more likely to get it right than if we grab a favourite son who happens to be an assistant, or throw $1m at a retired coach who seems driven as much by bitterness at his former club as he does by commitment to our club. Discussing which was the worse appointment seems utterly irrelevant. I don't think either of them were right, and unless we put a process in place that at least gives us the best chance (but not a guarantee) of a great new coach we will continue to be lost somewhere last century. I think for the record the two really bad recruiting decisions I think ratts was heavily involved in were the Warnock who has been an overpaid underperformer and our strategy left us (with the decision to trade out Josh K rather than the pick we used on Big K) with 4 similar rucks at similar development, and the McLean one which seemed to be all Ratts and we gave up way to much for a battler. I still can't believe that we had picks 11 and 12 in that draft and failed to get a good long term player with either, that was a deep draft and we got very little. With the Hendo trade for Fev that could have been the draft that set us up, alas not