It seems today many of us supporters expect our new recruits, who have been at the club for less than 4 years, to be performing like a seasoned player and are quick to call for their heads if they aren't.
The obvious reason for this is because of the senior team performing so miserably, we put our all hopes on our new players to help lift the side. We want them quickly promoted from the Bullants and played, even if form doesnt warrant it. If they don't perform immediately we call them duds and bag the crap out of them.
Back when we were successful, we were able to play our new players in the reserves and only when they were ready and earned a spot, would they have received a game in the seniors.
I was just thinking if the Bullants were actually allowed to play before the main seniors match, then alot of the pressure and bagging by some supporters may stop. By being able to regularly see the progress of the youngsters in the Bullants, we would be able to then see who deserves a game, who should still be given more time in the reserves, and who shouldn't be kept.
Instead, at the moment, I think alot of us just see a young player who may be thrown into the seniors and is not quite ready and then is bagged by the supporters for being a dud.
The main reason for this post is to point out our impatience in the development of our current young players and that not being able to see the reserves team play before the seniors has added to this impatience.

It is true that the curtain raiser was a great thing for supporters to keep an eye on the up and comers; and it's a tragedy it's disappeared from that format.

This is the beauty of a forum like this where some posters are able to follow the Bullant's games and report back on the team and how the recruits are progressing.

It's the same with training; reports filtering back to us on injuries and possible promotions to the senior side are of enormous value to us.

I'm positive that every supporter would love to see the Reserves as a curtain raiser again.

I don't listen to supporters who bag the young players who are learning the trade.

_________________
No ones listening till you make a mistake.

My sentiments entirely Warb's.The greatest enjoyment of my football was to watch the magoos to check out the up and coming hopefulls.How many arguments did you have with pals as to the merits of particular players.He'll make it........no he wont.........where did they get him from,he's useless.........this kid is gunna be a star......etc,etc....Shit it was fantastic.

_________________
All my dangerous friends

My Geelong supporting mate used to rave on about this kid called Riccardi in the reserves...we can't wait for him to start playing seniors.

Myself, I remember watching a young kid called Daniel Marshall in the mid-90's and being convinced he was our next big Key Defender....delisted at the end of that season

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Our more seasoned players Livo, Spornie, Wiggo, Prenda, Houla, Fev, Bannister, Teague, Chambers and Longmuir are not young any more. They rightly get criticised and all need to lift this year.

Our young players under 4 years development: Davies gets criticised and rightly so, Bentick Carazzo and Simmo have largely been praised for their progression this season, Walker occasionally gets criticised but also gets praised, Russell Hartlett Blackwell are still developing.

No I don't think that the criticism has been unwarranted. Carlton supporters have mainly been criticising those players from 4-7 years who have not developed as much as they should have... even those more senior who have not returned value for their money. We did finish last after all.

Some of the players you have listed are not the young players I was referring to. e.g The rejects.
But even some of them are bagged without much of go. Such as Longmuir being classed as a dud after his first game with us. The rejects are in a different catergory though, as they have been taken in on the presumption that they will be able to add to the team immediately. In saying this we must still give them a decent chance. IMO most aren't or won't be up to it.

The young players I was referring to are Sporn, Wiggins, Livo, Davies, etc. who have been labelled duds and useless for a number of years now. I think they have been thrown into the seniors without being ready or deserving of a place and to not do well is no real surprise. Of course people will say we had no choice and we had to give them as many games as possible but I believe that if they had had more time in the reserves, without all the pressure, things may have turned out differently for some of them. Sometimes letting players sink or swim doesn't work as players take different times to come to grips with the playing higher level.
Not having the reserves playing before the seniors, when the seniors have been so bad, has not let us see that some players were not ready to be given a game. When they did get a game and didn't do anything, we have been quick to label them useless and a dud. Remember Simpson didn't get a possession in his first 3 games off memory and there were some with knives out.
Whats done is done though, and its easy to look back and say this is what we should of done with the players. We have to face what they are now and they really should of shown more than they have, especially the season just passed for a number of them. This must definitely be the last year for them to show the club they have a future with us. The club can not afford to keep them another year on pure hope that they will come good.

I think you'll find the young players feel little (if any) pressure from supporters.

Well when your young and you have supporters of the team you play for screaming out that they're useless, I don't think it would help their confidence.

You need a thick skin if you're going to play footy. Some of the worst examples of human nature are just over that fence. Footy players know how to block all that crap out, otherwise you'd end up shivering like a frightened rabbit.

I agree you need thick skin, but they are still learning to play at that level and copping it from your own supporters wouldn't help their development. Fine if they have already developed their game and they are shocking, but they have been copping it long before they deserved the critism which would not have helped them at all.

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

Yes, its late.

Well, that depends on which city you're in when posting.

My thoughts exactly.

_________________
Mjonc signing off at 8888

CC, Livo, Spornie and Wiggo get bagged because they have had 5 years with the club, Davies has had 4 years. Really this should be enough for them to show their wares. I know that because we have been so bad that some of these guys (eg. Livo) have been shown to the wolves early in their development, but still it is time that they now produced the goods.

I agree with you that this will be their last year if they don't show something special. Pagan has shown faith in them which is fair enough, but it is time these guys lifted to the next level.

I think Prenda and Houla have been with us for 7 years each and really neither of them produce enough either.

How many games did Tuck snr play with the magoos before a senior gig? Yeah different time different era but some are slower developers and dont do well with being thrown in

_________________
Can smell the gf its there for the taking we are the form side

yeah but while our mid-tier and senior players are just plodders, or declining stars (Kouta, Lappin), where else are we supposed to look to for solace and hope?!?!?!

they have to bear the brunt of it.

i can give a young guy say 2-3 years to make it, but in Year 4 they have to be open to criticism. Like they care what I think anyway! Wiggins, Sporn, Bannister, Prenders - these guys have been around for 5 years + and still aren't in the Best 22. These guys deserve scrutiny.

_________________
Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Yes, but while Tuck snr was developing in the magoos Leigh Matthews, Don Scott et al were brutalising the opposition.

The trouble with our younger/mid-tier players is that they are all developing at the same time. Our mid-tier players that have been around for 4-7 years should be stepping up to the plate and commanding games. The trouble is that most of our guys in that vintage are not doing that.

Some may never get any better than what they are at the moment and there comes a time when we need to say that enough is enough. It looks like that time might come at the end of 2006 as many of these guys are on their last chance.

AtW,

Of course they care what people think. Just because they are AFL footballers doesn't mean they no-longer have feelings or are immune to the criticism received from the masses over the fence.

We all know people who go overboard and many live on TC.

This crap about...."I spend my money so I can say what I like'...is a complete copout. How do you think the 'average joe supporter' would go if some players came into the supporters workplace and abused the hell out of the person whenever the job skills were poor or a wrong decision was made. If think the fun would go out of the job ASAP.

Wiggo, Prender and Jordy (I don't really know Sporny) are terrific, genuine blokes who are always up for a chat. They give their all at every turn. Okay they may struggle to cement a spot in the team and they aren't game winners but they have still made it onto an AFL list and have played many more games than any of us ever will.

They don't mean to play poorly. None take a backward step on the field. None are lazy, layabouts who are out drinking all night. They deserve some respect for having the right attitude when it is all said and done.

Yes they do deserve scrutiny and yes they do get it from within the club.

Okay they get paid fairly well to do what they do but that doesn't mean it should be 'open season' and all guns blazing on them when they struggle.

Regards Cazzesman

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

The really great Hawthorn teams of the late 70's and thru the 80's were manned by players who in some cases had played for years in junior competitions,thirds and reserves being groomed and toughened as an apprenticeship for the big time.

When and if they made it; by necessity they were "ready to play" and made the very most of their chance.

A prime example of this was Dermott Brereton who made a memorable debut in the '82 First Semi Final when he kicked 5 goals.

_________________
No ones listening till you make a mistake.