First post I've read of yours. Like it a lot.

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O say does that star spangled banner yet wave.

There is a lot of shrill panic on this website - it hurts that we aren’t what we were once and I feel it too.

We are miles off it and that is where we are. The first step in addressing a problem is to acknowledge it – talk of sacking the coach mid-season is the reactionary Carlton of old and won’t make a difference. You can see the media baiting the Carlton throng towards exactly this path…The mistakes of the past are exactly that, and crying over them won’t make a skerrick of difference. We need to take the pain and rebuild strategically through the draft. That might involve trading out some of our (few) more highly rated players to get more draft presence. Further short/medium term pain for longer term gain. Yes, this should have been done years ago.

I liked the way there were a lot of kids on the park yesterday – better for the longer term than watching Carrots notch up 30 possessions. I expect a lot more days like yesterday, but am hopeful that green shoots will emerge in time.

Positives for me were Tommy Bell, Sam Doc, Levi and Smith; liked the work rate of the latter and he’ll be a player in time.

Forget the gameplan. We don't have the cattle to be competitive at AFL. Gameplan is irrelevant.

The question is why we don't have the cattle? Everybody, bar the two coaches (Ratten and Malthouse) and the club could see that our list was not good enough in 2011/2012. We had come back from the 2002-2005 to be competitive again, but there were fundamental deficiencies not addressed, that needed to be addressed via the draft.

Firstly, the loss of Fevola (and Kennedy) left a hole in the forward line (2 holes really), and Ratten's solution were the three amigos- No key forward, no premiership. Ratten realised that too late and went to the 2010 draft (a poor one) and attempted to solve it by drafting watson, mitchell etc. It failed. We also had holes in the key positions in the backline. Bower was a bust. Instead of drafting the obvious like Talia, we went for the likes of Lucas and Davies.... a key mistake made by Ratten.

The other deficiency was not developing Murphy and Gibbs properly. Judd was such a quality player that he alone could carry their deficiencies (lack of defensive pressure and ability to break a tag). They are exposed now.

2011/2012 should have been years of building quality (large bodied mids and talls) through the draft. They would be 21-22 now and would provide us a very good base to be pressing hard in the next few years. Mick was erroneous here, he sold books and thought our premiership window was open. He also devalued valuable players to the point that we got nothing for the likes of Waite, Garlett and Robinson.... argue what theya re worth, but we got nothing for them. The other one is Betts. We were soooo hell bent of getting Thomas, that we got nothing for Betts. Hell, meet his terms under free agency and then trade him on. We got NOTHING for Betts- inexcusable and for that alone, MM should not get a new contract.

Now do we sack MM or let him coach out?

What impact would moving MM on now.

1) I don’t care if he has lost the senior players- they are a lost cause are not part of the future now. The only consideration is if Mick starts dropping players that could command us good/ok draft picks….ie. Garlett, Waite, Robinson.

2) What I do care about is if he has lost younger players that we need to keep and are thinking of moving on. A player like Menzel is a prime example. Yarran too.

Those are the main considerations

Hey Trem, how about we trade out the pretenders on the board who've wasted so much money and time with their inept governance practices ?

SAKC

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dane's trolling again

#I'llRideWithChelodina

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O say does that star spangled banner yet wave.

Why Rexy, whatever are you suggesting?

You can play all the kids you like but if you don't have structure in your set ups then you are wasting your time.

Vacant forward lines, one plan of attack from the kick in and a blatant lack of presentation to the ball carrier doesn't foster a great deal of development.

We look like under 12's out there.

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We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.

This I agree with. It amazes me that people can rant and rave about how shit we are, then when we lose the following weekend they get their knickers in even more of a knot and lose their shit again.

The same fans will be back going off their head at the board/coaches/players next week too. There has to be a point where you accept the position we're in, realise that lifting ourselves off the canvass isn't a week by week proposition and actually take a breath and allow things to progress naturally.

Fans can blow their top again when mistakes are made or if we see the same on field results down the track, but it doesn't make any sense for it to be happening in the post match threads after every game.

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@cecil_anderson

Strap yourself in

yes he did - and he said that both sides played with the intensity that you would expect from a very, very good football team.......and it is only a flesh wound

honestly bit like trigg blaming the Collingwood loss on the fact that we are a RELATIVELY young list........

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one you knock back is one you never have

wasn't it a very...very....good side

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one you knock back is one you never have

actually have to apologise - he only said that they were a VERY good team, not very, very .........but was he serious when he said that he told the players after the game that the attitude was better this week..............and that the intensity for victory by both teams was evident..........honestly.

and I am sick and tired to the likes of murphy and gibbs saying they are trying to improve and how losses really sting - like rowe in the media last week saying the time for talk is over and time is for action..............

oh but I was really comforted by murphy commenting that gibbs signing a five year deal and he a four year deal was proof that they believed in the club and committed to the long-term..........yeh right - only committed to their long-term pocket............

I have been a supporter since I sat on my mum's knee at 11 months of age listening to the 1947 GF (Stafford kicked a goal 15 seconds from the bend to beat the bummers by a point) and I can say that I cannot recall feeling more ashamed and embarrassed than the last two weeks.......

nuff said...........................

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one you knock back is one you never have

Actually Beatle, I haven't been around as long as you and I am as disgusted about the last 2 weeks as anybody but i remember a game in the early 00's where we played Norf and they were raffling the ball around in the goal square so that they could give a goal to their mates that normally don't get to score etc. It was like a grading game in the under 10's. That was the most embarrassed i have ever been about a Carlton team, this mob don't even come close to that. Then there was the guy we got from Pt Adelaide that dropped the ball in the centre square 20m away from anybody else then went crawling after it...that was pretty bad as well.

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

When you have injuries and forced to play players that aren't fit... Or aren't afl conditioned and have pour depth you funnily can't complain about results like these.
Even though knee jerk people are tempted.
Get ready.. Things will be worse over the next five years...
Reading about a port type of recovery is laughable..

This club is sick... It's the accumulation of years and years of mismanagement.
Wait and see what happens over the next five years if you're in pain now.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Fines handed out for that half time melee
AFL has got to be joking
Worst melee ever

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

I think they were fined for simulation, Syd.

Whiley Cripps and Smith $1000 each
That is a bit rich don't you think

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

What about Murphy and Gibbs fines?