Blues87 wrote:
4thchicken wrote:
Blues87 wrote:
emtwenty wrote:
pick 10 for a 28 year old ruck for a team rebuilding?????
Kreuzer is 26, averages 13 disposals, 4 marks and 21 hit outs per game and we're hoping to get pick two for him.
Martin is 28, averages 21 disposals, 6 marks and 31 hit outs per game and you scoff at pick 10.
Don't care whether we're "rebuilding" or not, getting good players on the list is always a good thing.
Targeting under 24 year olds landed us Jones and Tutt. That worked out well.
Not worth it unless we are ready to contend within 1-2 years.
Much better using pick 10 on a young player, going with stopgaps for a year or two and then picking someone up once we see how the rebuild is shaping up/have a very good idea when our 'window' might be
Thanks for responding in a civil manner.
What about pick 20?
The reason I put this on the table is I'm sure the members, players, coaching staff and board have little interest in seeing a substandard side run around for the next few years.
I know I personally want to see us be competitive.
Given the apparent shallow draft depth I'd trade pick 20 for martin - I doubt the lions wouldn't accept it though.
The way I see it, our lack of competitiveness is due to the complete lack of direction within the club over the past 3 years - game plans, list development, team cohesion etc - rucks are the least of our worries.
Direction and competitiveness will come through the following
- having an actual coach signed up that is able to imprint his style from ground zero (barker doesnt count, you need at least one preseason)
- having a reasonably fit midfield -> don't forger that we've effectively judd, thomas, gibbs, graham will all end up missing >50% of the season. For 2016, murphy, gibbs, cripps (fitter), boekhurst (fitter), curnow, graham, bell, fit irish boys X2 as options floating through more often than not will help competitiveness
- having a forward pocket/crumber -> assuming yarran is gone, buckley & armfield would be the only 2 that I'd consider capable of being genuine crumbers - give them a go in that role and pick someone up in the draft.
Whilst I understand your wish for competitiveness, I think its the lack of direction that kills supporters. Most of us can put up with some mediocrity provided there are enough glimpses of the future. It is also possible to be competitive without overspending on stopgap solutions (martin being a stopgap based on age profile)
Going back to the way that I'd approach this offseason...
I'd happily let kreuzer (age profile, compo), henderson (heart/non-competitive), yarran (heart/non-competitive) & menzel (heart/non-competitive) go if it meant we ended up with...
2015 -> 3 X 1st round picks (1, 2 & 10)
2016 -> 3 X 1st round picks (blues, yarran & menzel trades)
2015 -> picks 1 & 2 for weitering francis - both competitive beasts, good marks, elite kicking, physically ready & are good at reading the play. From reports it would appear Schache is a peg below in terms of being an absolute competitor. Pick 10 would be best available with an eye towards competitive + disposal rather than other traits.
2016 -> load up on best available again with an eye towards players that are competitive + have very good disposal.
Also use 2016 to hit FA -> we won't have anyone of note that would cost us compo, so that is the time to bring in a player that can slot straight into the 22.
Imo, our issue over the past few years has been that we rarely look for absolute competitiveness in our early picks - Just look back at some of our early picks for proof -> menzel, yarran were largely picked on talent/x-factor, bootsma on physical attributes/upside, watson on kicking ability/needs, hampson on athletic potential, grigg on athletic potential, lucas on athletic ability - and that is just off the top of my head!
The best players aren't necessarily the most physically gifted or have the best skills - they tend to be the ones that work the hardest, extract every ounce of talent, be gutted when we lose and work harder again.
How many of those players do we have on our list? and perhaps more importantly, why have the majority of the players that we've picked up with those traits come from the rookie list rather than our early draft selections?
/rant over
I totally agree.
Imagine what a Travis Boak or Joel Selwood would do for our list with their leadership, toughness, skill and football nous.
I do think that losing Kreuzer would leave a massive whole in the side though.
We've seen how useless Warnock is, and while I like Cam Wood's endeavor, he is just a stop gap.
The presence or absence of a quality ruckman would affect our whole style of play and therefore affect the development of every player in the team which is why I think we need to bed something down sooner rather than later.
1) marking - if they can't take contested marks around the ground they are useless
2) physical intimidation - they should affect contests with their size and aggression in shepherding and tackling
3) hit outs - they should be able to at least neutralize the opposition ruckman. Bonus points if they win more than they lose and even more bonus points if they can hit out to advantage 30% of the time.
I'm not bothered about whether they are able to rack up Josh Fraser style possessions.
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