ahh quality as always CG. i think its your maturity I welcome most of all.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Personally I couldn't care less what opposition supporters say or do. Firstly they are basically just envious of our successes and secondly scared that we will win another flag before any of them do.

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carn the blues

Draft choices are a state of mind, as is going to a game (watching/listening to a game) and hoping for a result...it's up to you to decide what makes you happy.

For some, it's draft choices.

For others, it's wins.

For some, it's an abusive partner.

For others, it's lifelong partnership.

Forget about trying to make other people you. It will never happen.

Get used to the fact pretty much everyone isn't anything like you.

That's life.

And footy.

And tanking.

And winning.

And everything within the whole caper.

Hardly something to get worked up about.

and getting worked up is half the fun - so long as we remember its for fun.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Judd, Hodge, Deledio, Cooney are a state of mind.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Id actually call my style 'forceful' the eloquent stuff is for the 'Nancy boys' i leave it to you........

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I suggest we start a think tank on the tank if any of us have any energy in the tank to deal with this matter.

I would be tankfull to get your opinions:)

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Can smell the gf its there for the taking we are the form side

Its not playing dead its playing smart..use the system like others have been doing...we need to survive and when its survival you have to get down and play dirty like the others ie Hawthorn, Collingwood etc...
We are broke ,the brand name has been damaged and recruiting readymade stars is a long shot these days even with big bucks...only way is the draft and that means getting early picks to cut down the odds of picking lemons...we have a decent recruiting manager now and we have to give him the chance to pick the best talent..if it means dropping a couple of games to ensure the survival of the club then its got to be done.

Its obvious that list management and trading at the right time to keep a supply of early picks is the way to stay afloat on field..its only going to get harder. Trading fading stars at the right time ie Campo, Whitnall, etc might seem strange now but we had better get used to it if we want to keep a healthy list with good balance....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

"STANDING OVATTION" TOOOOOO TRUE EB

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Can smell the gf its there for the taking we are the form side

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!Were Carlton...

We can do it with a shit list..... !!!

We can be the next North...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

why is this going on. Nothing you say EB or Synbad or whomever has any influence on Carlton. so why the need to chest beat about 'the right way'?

Do you want an argument?

Do you feel the need to justify?

Are you scared some posters here can influence the club?

Do you think everyone must agree?

What?

Its this need that drivs me batty, not the argument, but the need to have the argument.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

How you use them to make yourself happy (or unhappy) is. The choice is yours.

Danny, I was responding to CG's initial post and a couple of other comments..I debate ..I dont argue....this thread is topical for a variety of reasons....sure CG is throwing some bait out, but the results of this draft and how we obtained them are a discussion point and how we intend to continue being proactive in building and keeping a healthy list.
Influencing the club?...Mate...Dont think I influence many on this site much less the club. I just make observations and debate points of view..
I dont respond to posts or make threads to bait or argue, while everyone is patting Wayne Hughes and the club on the back for picking Murphy, Kennedy etc I think its fair enough to debate how we actually obtained the
picks to get them.....I know CG likes to take the piss and a lot of his posts are tongue in cheek he does make some good points and if they are presented in a logical manner I will respond to them...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

this was logical?

no this was a taunt, pure and simple.

and its old ground. I mean really , why discuss a past event except so those who believe they are right (and now have circumstances on their side) can browbeat those who believe they are right (but have not the circumstances). there is no debate here, just an i told you so from CG.


or do we want a tanking debate now before a ball has been bounced?

and with the new rules its all pretty much redundant anyway - thank God!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Dannyboy, i think youre kind of losing it.
What some people are saying is if we had of won one more game where would that have left us in this draft???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

As always, a good discussion point (and the way to get a few posters steamed up!) but like DB I'm just dreading the talk of lying down to pick up a Joel Selwood if we drop our first few games of the season. Going to see your team play when there is no incentive to win is pretty damn hard work.

I'm one that doesn't subscribe to the theory of having to finish down the bottom for a number of seasons (particularly as part of some grand plan a la the Hathorn / St Kilda model when you have committee members such as Brereton criticising the team for winning games early int he season) to build a good list. I would much rather go the way of Adelaide and West Coast who may have had their down years (and drafted well when given the chance) but used their rookie selections (Chad Fletcher, Dean Cox, Rutten, Bock) and later draft choices (Graeme Johncock) to good effect. They get the most of their champion players, trade aggressively when they have to (Tyson Stenglein, Scott Thompson, etc) and have seemed to have better ways of developing their bottom tier into solid contributors (Perrie, Mattner, Glass, Lynch).

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In WADA we trust

Selwood is a good player but there are Thorp and Gibbs on offer this year..

And lying down???

Where do you realistically think we will end up next year???

Im not talking about hope. cos were all hoping for the flag.

Were miles away.. were still in rebuilding mode and will be for another couple of years.

Thats just how it is. - for now

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

no synbad, the point is we finsished were we finished picked who we picked.

the rest is dick wagging.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I chose to treat it as a logical post and respond to the argument...ok it had the I told you so element to it but I ignored that and also choose not
use the word tanking either as its seems to provoke what you are debating with me.

Past event?...I think the results of the draft and how we obtained the players are current news....like I said Danny I dont post to windup you or others or carry Signatures with "its all about Bryce Gibbs" now either to do the same....brow beating?.....dont think anyone couid accuse me of beating them into submission....as most who know my work if you can convince me with facts I will conceed the point.

Recruiting and its methods will aways be a hot issue on this site and a lot of the posters get off on the mechanics of it and the results..like I said if its intelligent debate then why not?....there would be plenty who would already be waiting for next years draft and Bryce Gibbs, Mitch Thorp etc...
You can turn a piss taking thread into some intelligent debate if you want to....or you can argue semantics...

re: Dukes previous post is an decent example of what I am saying...logical, well thought out response, without any drama.....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

I know we're still shite ... a lot of work still to be done BUT hopefully we're heading in the right direction (after all we can't drop any lower!).

I think the players are fairly unaccountable these days. Bannister, Prenda, Davies, Sporn, Wiggins, Livo and a few others are lucky to be on a list with contracts in place given their level of output over not just last year but over their whole careers. Lance still gets his pieces of silver for 1 decent year (I'm not someone who though he was 'that' great last season despite what his manager tells us ) especially after a disappointing previous 4, Kouta's still earning the equivalent of Voss + Akermanis + C Scott at Brisbane (not his fault but still a sign of our culture) AND Camporeale is still on our list (even on paper only is bad enough!) when he was waiting in the carpark with a freakin' Scum jumper.

Where do I think we are ... we finished last because our higher paid players just don't perform to the level their pay packets suggest and we still have 6-12 players who will never make it as regulars at AFL level (on top of the crop of unproven youngsters) who we are forced to play week after week. The hard line on contracts and choice of tall younsters won't help us this year (so pain still beckons) but will lay the platform for our future success. 2007 PKC (Post Kouta's Contract) is the one where we start structuring our list payments on a level playing field for the first time in a long time. I suppose we just all want to see a bit of positivity on this forum ... looking at ways we can get better that don't involve us losing. In this socialist AFL system we have it may just be a naive dream!

For me, it's all the criticism in hindsight from some of us winning 10 games in 2004 that infuriated the most. We had a decent year where many of our players played to their potential ... and showed what we are capable of - Fev, Houlihan, Scotland, Thornton being the obvious examples which spring to mind.

Best case prediction for 2006 is 12th ... worst case is another year struggling at the bottom with Hawthorn (at the moment our list can't be rated any higher than about 15th in the comp).

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In WADA we trust