You know I have always wondered if the standards that some apply to the players are applied in thier own personal lives. If they do, then I reckon that there are a lot of miserable/angry Carlton supporters around.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Cancereale is appropriate in my mind. Whilst it may seem over the top, the way that his attitude and petulance ate away at the very fabric of the club has really left a rather sour taste in my mouth.

Because it's eaten away at the fabric of the club, he was a cancer on the club - a disease that could not be cured unless it was cut out. I'm glad he's gone and it doesn't matter if we didn't get anything for him, the benefit of him just leaving is tenfold.

I apologise at this stage to anyone who has had, knows people who have had or have cancer. I know relatives who've had it, we all probably do, and it's not meant to belittle these people at all. If anything it magnifies the effect of what cancer is. It's something that eats away at the very inside of one's physical and mental being. But if anyone is offended by these Cancereale comments then they will be withdrawn by me in the future.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Just on the question to Synbad on what you would expect Kouta to say in public about Campo.

Maybe something like Its sad to see him go, but we at the Carlton Football Club have a job to do and that is to lift this team up to where they belong. And it is sad that he did not see it the same way, and chose to instead bail out. End of story.

Koutas true colours will come out at the end of next year when his contract is up. He has been looked after too well and that is why you heard nothing from him. Next year when they look to drop his salary significantly we will see then.

I agree with Synbad, and dont think that Kouta is a leader only a good player. He has not shown leadership over the years in terms of pay cuts for the good of the team etc. He may of taken a little pay cut, but it was made up for him in another way ie extra year.

A leader also openly supports the coach and the players. He has done neither instead only supporting his mate like he is doing now with Campo - the worm.

ps Essendon* training singlets are so unflattering dont you think. He looks like a hairy little worm in it. Carltons training tops are second to none in my opinion.

Are you sure about the pay cuts being little?

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Comparable to his market worth, yes I consider it little. This of course considers things like his injuries, time to get back into playing again, and poor form. He is simply not what he was when he signed that contract. I for one don't always like his attitude. When someone asks him a question he usually goes back to taking time to get back to his best form, had a lot of injuries. I have played ok.

Soft when someone is nowhere being their best and then says they did ok and settles for that.

Campo was a big one for this.

Can they not challenge themselves and say, I need to do more. That is a leader ie (hate to say it but Buckley, Hird)

A few thoughts about Kouta from a distant observer who has only been able to see games on TV in recent years…….

Kouta was once able to win a game off his own boot and at least one quarter he has played could be regarded as amongst the best ever by anyone. He was one of the strongest players, most mobile and took plenty of pack marks at either end of the ground in crucial situations. Kouta has lost some of that athleticism ( due to his knee injuries?) and is not the unstoppable player that he once was. His game is now limited in some areas when he was once the complete footballer.

This is not meant to be a negative post about Kouta because I also recognise the way he has adapted his game to get the most out of what his body can now do. He has emerged as the inside pack ball winner. He handballs more often than he kicks and is responsible for many of his team mates possessions either by getting the hand ball out or by subtle blocking and using his body strength to assist another player in a pack. It is a tribute to him that he has been able to adapt his game to still win a best and fairest when he is obviously restricted compared to his previous athletic ability.

I have long felt that this attribute separated the real champs from those players who could just be classified as good.

For instance, G Cornes ( father of the two boys now at Port Adelaide) was a spectacular marking player but, by the time he migrated from Adelaide to the big time he was losing the high mark and was not able to adapt. His game appeared to be one dimensional. By contrast, players like Malcolm Blight, Leigh Matthews and our own Jezza were able to adapt their game as they got older and compensate for loss of some speed and agility with guile, body strength and superior reading of the game.

I would not place Kouta in the same category as the three champs listed above. But only because his injuries have sliced a big chunk out of the career he potentially could have had. But I do rate Kouta for the ability to adapt his game and still be a champ when the athleticism is less than what it used to be.

I look forward to him having some more speedy talented youngsters playing alongside him this year and next.

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“Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you're a mile a way and you have their shoes."

Kouta is an absolute champion and will be remembered that way.

He is a quiet polite guy and this comes through when they invterview him.

Just because Synbad says he's not a great leader, and a lot of people recognise that as a player he's declining doesn't mean that anyone is Kouta hating. In fact your thread headline is pretty crappy, theres no hating going on.

The campo issues are different. He upsets us with his sooking, faking, handball receives. Kouta works hard, plays in all manner of spots when asked and is just a credit to our Club, to us and to himself.

No comparison.

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Hit.

Nail.

Head.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Exactly my point..

I think it's fair to say that there is a lot of 'Campo-hating' going on around here now.. thats obvious.

In my first post I said that when I started seeing people bag Campo (months ago) about softness etc I couldn't believe that I'd end up thinking in a similar way to them.. It went from a few people bagging Campo to everyone now agreeing on it and the people who DON'T hate him are considered the weird/extreme ones..

Which is my point about Kouta.. people are having digs at him more and more nowadays and I don't want this place (currently Campo-hating) to develop into a place where eventually Kouta-hating is what's agreed upon..

The point of the thread, hence the thread title... understand?

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"Some people take delight in Carlton. " - Verbs

We all agree on Kouta's great past. It's the current and the future that will decide whether Kouta retains his elite status amongst the CFC faithfull. It's up to the Koutaman himself from now on to decide how his twilight years will be judged.

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There's so much I could say...

I share your sentiments, benny.

While I despise Campo, part of my hate and anger at him is because of his absolute lack of the utilisation of the skills he definitely has. Like I have said before, Campo could have easily been as good as Aker, if he had the application on the field. He doesn't. He's a corner-cutter, yet he demands he be paid as a superstar.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

great post, 'Nuzz!!

Good to see you back on board, even from the other side of the coin.

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"You're my boy(s), Bluuuee(s)..."

I don't hate Kouta.

I don't think he is the best Captain, but then there are few alternatives right now.

It has been tragic watching the Greek Adonis get cut down with injury. Like a true champion, he has battled on as best he can.

I hope he can keep producing, as I would love to see him play from the goalsquare (like A.Lynch did) for many years yet, at the right price of course.

Look, i dont hate kouta.. i just dont think he is who we need.

Now what i think Kouta should have said??Ive answered that...

Campo decided it serves his best interests to go elsewhere. That is HIS decision.
We at Carlton are EXCITED with the influx of the new players and were looking forward to slowly turning this club around back to where it deserves to be.
The club is

Campo doesnt warrant Koutas endorsement.... Kouta should not have to turn Campo into anything important... he left.. he left!! thats all there is to it.
His job is to only talk about the positives around the footy club at the moment.Not to get into a situation where he talks about Campo and his wish for Campo to still be at the club after Campo jumped ship and dumped on the club and the coach....

Its sending the wrong messaages.
In fact you have to worry that behind the scenes Kouta is sympathising with Campos plight against the club....

You cant send that kind of message out there.
Campo should be forgotten about with only "I wish him good luck but we have bigger fish to fry!!!"

Now thats leadership....!!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Yeahyeah we get it Synbad you've only written that in 15 other posts in the past few days

I agree with you.

Understand your pooint benny, just the title got me going. I watched, what was it, Melbourne Carlton at OO and Campo was sooking and Kouta seemed to be trying his darnedest

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

And at the end of the day, that's all you can really ask for as a supporter. A player may, or may not, have the ability to play at the level, but as long as they bust a gut for the club we can't really complain...

Greatest Signature Ever Mud, EVER.

Close my eyes, only for a moment, and the moment's gone
All my dreams, pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind, all they are is dust in the wind.
Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do, crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see

Dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind

[Now] Don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away, and all your money won't another minute buy.

Dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind
Dust in the wind, everything is dust in the wind.

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Forgotten, but not gone

Who would you have Synbad? I rekcon captaincy options are pretty thin on the ground at PP right now. I always thought Lance but he's not exactly the guy to fire everyone up. Stevens? Not sure about that either. I still reckon Kouta's done an ok job, who remembers great capatains from sides that have just gone through an extended period of their worst performances in club history? I don't think the best captain in VFL/AFL history could have made us too much more.

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Forgotten, but not gone

What are you going on about Synbad? Kouta is as committed as anyone as has shown with his b+f year.

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Corinthians 9:6- 8

Kouta has been a great player but like every great and not so great player from the Elliot era he got a "testimonial" contract, that has cost us as members and supporters millions of dollars we don't have, and set us on the path to the salary cap breaches. That in turn, have cost of much more.
Kouta was probably the first to really test his share of the money pie and in doing so caused many problems. Remember the adidas boots just when we signed up Nike. I think given all that has happended and he and his manager had a lot to do with it, he should at least shut up about Campo.
My opinion is today we would be better off with him retired and Stevens as captain. That does not diminsh the wonderful service and genuine passion the man has for the club, remember his Farewell Optus game, its just to balance things it came at a horrible price and really only one flag and two spoons. Naturally it's not personally their fault but he and his mate Campo leave the club in ruins not as they found it.

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Green Shooter