Can we round up?

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a) Loved Blue Sombrero's post - just great, inclusive and from the heart!

b) What I enjoyed most this season (for the most part) was almost expecting our defenders to win the ball back from the opposition and send the ball back towards our forward line. Compared with previous years when the opposition won the ball and I almost just waited for the post-goal ball up in the middle. This tells me BB's system can work, especially as we develop better players, skills and stamina at the contest

c) Really hope we focus on drafting midfielders now (and a ruck via trade, rookie draft etc...).

d) I expect the big improvers from the current list to be Plowman (with the confidence of a solid year and a full pre-season vs v limited prep this year), C. Curnow and Silvagni.

e) I really HOPE the likes of Sumner, Buckley, Boekhorst can really take a big step up over summer - we need their pace but if they don't take that big step, they won't make it past the post-2017 razor gang.

f) I do not expect a fall from this year in terms of wins. We were probably a step or two ahead of plan this season but with additional development of Weitering, C.Curnow, Silvagni, Cunningham; the return of Murphy*; the introduction late in the season of McKay I think we should be able to win the games we are expected win (lets say there are 5 of these incl replays), go at least 40-60 with our 'peer teams' (Richmond, Melbourne, St Kilda, Gold Coast, Coll, Port Adelaide (call it 4 wins), plus pinch a game or two that we are heavy underdogs.

g) I am happy to trade Gibbs for a top 10 draft pick (but nothing less). I would be open to trading away our pick 5 for O'Meara if we receive a lower 1st round pick as part of the deal (and provided we don't have to pay him a Daisy-like salary). If we did both these things, we could effectively get three first round players where we previously had 1 and all of these could be around when we are competing in the top 4 again (Vs Gibbs who is unlikely to be and then we'll lose him for nothing when he's 32....).

h) Notwithstanding what I just said above about draft picks, the best teams find a way to turn average players into great ones b/c of their culture, development, game plans/systems and clear roles. Yes, high picks help but our experience as well as that of Melbourne, Richmond, Gold Coast and Brisbane Vs Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney, Adelaide illustrate the point. Bulldogs and Saints went to the draft but also traded out good players and only moved forward with a great coach and game plan....

17th out.

*Murphy - I am worried that he may not return as he once was. Depends on whether they really ruled him out for the season pretty early on and he was just fibbing about returning 'in two-three weeks' for the whole 2nd half of the season or whether this was really what he was aiming for. If the latter, he was probably screwing up the ankle in an attempt to get back on the park as quickly as possible and we may see him hampered by it next year. If the former, he would hopefully have been rehabilitating on a longer and more thorough trajectory and will hopefully return as good as before.

Murphy's a drug cheat??

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Now don't go impugning the reputation of the humble asterisk.
the asterisk is just an indicator of irregularity (in this case whether Murphy will indeed return to his best or be hampered through next season due to his attempts to get back a few weeks after the injury...)

it is the word 'Essendon*' which should connote drug cheat.

one might also suggest 'Essendon*' = draft cheats as well, given they will ultimately reap significant benefit out of their drug cheating.
but that is for a different forum.

Essendon* are already easily demonstrated to be draft cheats, salary cap cheats and drug cheats, they deserve an Obelisk as well as an Asterisk next to their name.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Carlton players have nominated Docherty, Gibbs & Simpson as our three MVP nominations.
Interesting that Cripps didn't crack the top 3 from the players' perspective....

That's pretty bizarre.

Hard to imagine he'll be outside the top 2 in the B&F.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
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Not that the other three are undeserving but...

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Fair call. These 3 have been the most consistent all year.
Cripps had a huge down through the middle of the year.

Bizarre indeed. If the players don't have in in high regard doesn't augur well for his long term future at the club.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

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Don't you mean Gibbs?

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What, because putting Simpson, Gibbs and Docherty ahead of him is unreasonable? How exactly is this a sign of low esteem?

I don't think it is sinister or anything, just interesting to see what the players thought.
Of particular note is that they rated Gibbs highly (moreso than Cripps).
Primarily it tells me they feel differently about Gibbs than many of us do.

As far as I can tell, Gibbs has the reputation (certainly amongst us fans) of being excellent when he puts in the effort and average when he doesn't and that he doesn't always appear to put in the effort.
Whilst Cripps did have a form slump during the middle of the season, my outside perspective was that he always puts in 100%.
Therefore, I found it interesting that the players put Gibbs forward for MVP which probably indicates that their perception of him is different from many of ours.

Especially interesting when factoring in the B&F which had Docherty on top, Simpson & Cripps virtually even on the 2nd line, then Gibbs pretty close behind, and then a gap to 5th place and beyond....

Also interesting was Kruezer and Rowe in the top 10.

His teammates would know when he's playing to instruction, when he's struggling through injury or illness, how much he's putting in on the track, how much effort he's putting in during games, how spent he is after games etc etc

Fans in general know SFA.

_________________
"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Yes, that is presactly what I found interesting.
Good to hear.

Ok, the tributes for Gibbs are now done- Can we get on with trading him now?

I reckon anyone whose output ranges from excellent to average is awesome. How many players in the AFL can you say that about??

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

Wait, what? The players, coaches, and most commentators rate him highly, but chelodina doesn't.... So let's trade him.

_________________
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

To be fair, whether or not to trade him is a v diff question to how good he is.
One might even argue that the better he is, the greater incentive to trade him.
Key inputs for me are:
1) His value - what could we get in return (if no.1 pick, I'd say go for it! If pick 45, don't be ridiculous... so where is the line?)
2) His age - will he be there (and still at least very good) when we think we'll be competing again? If not, it makes sense to trade him to get something good in return Vs wait until he retires gracefully for which we receive nothing; unless....
3) His value off-field e.g. to developing the young'ns rasies the cost of trading him beyond the value of whatever we would receive

My gut tells me that SOS values him more than whatever we'd get for him.
But my gut is often wrong and always giving me trouble (it mostly wants more than whatever I shove down my gob....)