I don't think we had a fair dinkum crack at the draft between '94 and 2000 (note - I am saying a fair dinkum crack - just because Livo, Wiggo, and Sporn look like they might be duds does not mean we didn't at least give ourselves a chance of getting some talent). That's six years of trading for guys like McGuane, O'Reilley, Mansfield - and failing to give ourselves early picks. If we had have been seriously involved in the draft in 96, 97, and 98 (yes we went for Massie and Vance - but we also left most of our picks up until the end of the draft in those years) then those players would now be about 25-29 years old - ie. IN THEIR PRIME!
In the end we all hang rubbish on Vance and Massie for not being good enough - but the reality was that by trading away other early picks we had in those drafts we ended up relying on these two guys to become superstars.
Our current problems relate to not having any footballers in that 25-29 year old age group, and it stems primarily from the drafts of 95-99. Five years out of the draft is far too long. This was then obviously compacted by being 'back in' the draft in 2000 (once again note - I am not saying these guys are stars, but I am saying that at least we made an effort), before being 'out' again by choice (2001 - McKernan), and by the AFL (2002, 2003). Looking over the draft from '94 - I reckon you can say we have only had a few fair dinkum efforts at getting ourselves some talent (ie. significant numbers of picks (at least four) where at least half of those picks came before number forty. I don't have a stats book on hand - but here is a guess at which drafts we've made an effort:

1994, 1998, 2000, 2004, 2005

That gives us 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003 where we have either chosen not to dip into the talent available in any significant way, or have been constrained from doing so. Whatsmore - its only three of 10 seasons from 1994-2003 in which we gave ourselves a chance. Now we're just playing catch-up. My guess is we need at least another two years of solid drafting before we can even think about trading away picks again.
That's where we jumped the shark!

you can tell we're stuggling in the fortune department when u put that lot up.... ok i'll give u murphy

You can add 2001 to that. If Kouta was fit I reckon we'd have given it a shake then too. We made it to the Semi Finals, should have beaten Richmond.

So if not for Kouta's knee we'd be sitting in 18, Essendon* on 15

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Personally the shark jumped the day they unceremoniusly towed the caravan from the top of the old scoreboard standing room area and demolished the place.

And then when they replaced all that great terrace with the legends stand. What a crock.

I miss that van.


On the field, it was the Devonport deal followed by the McGuane deal that had the fish out of the water.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

If it wasn't for Kouta knee, yes maybe the last few season may have been different on field, but off field - Jack could still been President until his court case, Carlton losing millions in court battles against the AFL suing over draft bans, still playing games at OO, never break the 30,000 member barrier and our finances may have never been known... Scary...

When the AFL decided to go ahead with Telstra Dome.

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Working alone. At the coalface. Scott's gone for lunch! Said he would be back in 30 mins.

when Jack's first 5 years were up no one challeneged, no one dared - carlton, no one dared! End of culture begining of fiddle playing while optus Oval burned and wem, we fools fattened of the milk of too many flags sat on our flag warmed arses and gloated while we burned!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

good post molly

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#DonTheStash

Retirement of SOS combined with Kouta going down end of 2001 showed how much we relied on those 2 & how ordinary the rest of our list was.

We were at the peak of our power after the 82 flag. The most powerful, most successful, most innovative, most wealthy club in the land. The Elliott years failed to capitalise on our position and we decliend over a long period. We were successful in the 90s due to old style recruiting - Sticks; Braddles; Diesel; Madden; Spalding and luck, SOS a father/ son; Kouta and Ang (and Matty Allan) the last of the U 19s.

We were in a great position in the early 80s when drafting was introduced to exploit it, to have the best recruiters, to be the best at drafting, instead we ignored drafting. Given our history how did we not realsie the potential of the draft? For instance, had drafting existed in their day, Swan McKay, Southby, Walls Crosswell and Doullie, would have probably been in the same draft. You'd be happy to get that on draft day. We had so many great players fall in our laps and recruited well for others, and yet it took us 20 years to wake up to drafting.

When the other big clubs were moving to the MCG, we were pouring money into Princes Park.

The Bombers and Sheedy tried to develop a national and global support, we didn't work hard developing membership and support. We fell like many empires have fallen, through arrogance, complacency and a false optimism.

People say Elliott "won" us two flags. (I can't actually remember him playing in either of them). In fact, an innovative committee may have set up a regime that would have won 4 or more flags.

When Kernahan retired we lost the greatest captain on field and off the field no one could fill his huge shoes.

I would have to say after the 99 GF (this is where the planning ahead should have started.) The 99 draft onwards should have been the rebuilding era.

Whilst many acknowledge that from 94/95 the re-building should've started, the fact is the strategy (to some extent) to top up, worked, as we had a window of opportunity in 99 to pinch a premiership.

2000 & 2001 were years that we squeezed blood out of stones!!! These were the years (including the 99 Draft) that we should've capitalised, Decisions made in 2000 draft selections were or are proving to be very ordinary.

This is all easy to say in hindsight. Had we pinched the 99 flag, would this thread exist? Probably not.

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For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

When the Supreme Court threw out the NCA's charges against Elliot. The next weekend he got a standing ovation at OO like a returned hero, rather then a criminal that had dodged a bullet. He set about @#$%&! the club after that

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T E A M

After the '95 GF, not the '99. We had a team that was crying for a succession plan, and the fact we didn't recognise the problem, showed how poorly managed we were.

Once I asked a very senior powerbroker why more wasn't done at that time, and his response was "Where would've we got replacements from?"

The draft, perhaps?

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"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, and the young know everything." Oscar Wilde

gerry you've nailed it i reckon.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Excuse me for appearing stupid, but what does "jumping the shark " mean?
I have never heard this expression before.
(Am I showing my age?)

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"Carlton's most loyal, their bruised and battered egos now seemingly a bad dream, drank beers, murdered pies and cheered every time Judd touched the ball."

Absolutely nailed it right there....we had an ageing team that let nothing stand in it's way to a Flag.

Many of the players also knew this was almost certainly their last chance for Premiership glory.

What happened after that?.....not much....we completely dropped the ball
and the other Clubs caught up and passed us and we did nothing....(yes I know we had some success)....but essentially we lost the plot.

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No ones listening till you make a mistake.

It usually refers to the exact point where a really good TV series becomes really shit... like, the exact episode that was awful, and it never recovered. The name comes from a late episode of Happy Days where the Fonz has to waterski over a shark as a dare (?) or stunt. The show remained crap after that episode, including the introduction of Mork from Ork (which I assume was after the shark jump??), and the growing significance of Joannie and Chachi. I think even Ralph or Potsy had left by that point (????)

In this instance, we're applying to mean the exact moment where Carlton went from powerhouse to poorhouse

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Love Cricket? Love me

Ta Ty

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"Carlton's most loyal, their bruised and battered egos now seemingly a bad dream, drank beers, murdered pies and cheered every time Judd touched the ball."

Elliott almost single handly [REDACTED] the club with that stupid legends stand,the picks we missed for 2 years. It seems to me that people within the club at that time were intimidated by him and didnt do anything to stop him make stupid decisions. I remembered many times when big Jack was interviewed on the radio and some of the things he said didnt make sense and I thought to myself that he wasnt all there.He promised in '87 that after the Blues won their next flag he would give it away.He should of kept the promise.
The 99 season prolonged his time at the club, but anyone with half a brain could see that we were in for a fall of monumental proportions. I think Collo and the current admin are on the right track, but it will be a few more years of pain before the wheel turns the full circle.