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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:08 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
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Cazzesman wrote:
Stef his opponents this year have ranged from about 184cm types to 193cm. He did well on all sizes week in week out and is very hard to beat 1 on 1.

He might struggle on super quick smalls but who doesn't. What he is very good at is keeping his feet in the contest and giving solid 2nd and 3rd efforts.

Regards Cazzesman


Thanks Cazzesman.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:36 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:50 am
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terriffic post Cazz, explained the logic of the selections....

it's not only about leg speed, you have to be able to get the pill and do something with it. A midfield made up of 6 David Clarkes would be bluddy quick and would never hit a target.

The Lions did not have that many quick blokes in their fab five. Aker is a jet and lukey power is reasonable but lappin just runs harder than anyone else and voss and black aren't any quicker than average, just flower good players.

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 Post subject: Great insight Cazz
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:07 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
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love your work thanks and great to get the insider trading 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:25 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am
Posts: 4827
Thanks Cazz for the inside story on the reasons why we recruited who we did....I appreciate the club couldnt fix all the problems in one draft and that you cant expect to get quality in every area. Like most have discussed before it seems that work ethic and attitude were more important to Pagan and co than most other attributes and that he wants a core base of solid citizens that will do what they are told unlike other players who has weeded out of the club.....I dont think I have ever seen a greater emphasis on getting the right type of player with regards attitude..this goes for any draft or any club...

re: Sticks comments about Brisbane....players like Peter Burgoyne destroyed Brisbane in the GF..Lions lack leg speed ...Agree you cant have six Clarkes or six Burgoynes..you need the right balance

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:47 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Footballer first, Atheletes second people.
A footballer will beat an athlete 90% of the time.
Great example is the Brisbane fab 5.

IMHO, we have balance (brackets are the possibles)
Pace
Walker, Simpson, Murphy, Chambers, and (Russell)

Inside
Koutoufides, Bentick (Blackwell and Jessie-Smith)

Class/Finishes
Stevens and Houlihan

What I believe we need is another class finisher and inside. Hopefully Walker, Murphy or Simpson will take the next step and become class finishes and Blackwell will become the insider.

Also think we might be in a position (if we are smart enough) to trade a KP in a year or so for what we might need if one or two of the above mentioned don't come through.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:04 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:12 am
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SurreyBlue wrote:
Footballer first, Atheletes second people.

IMHO, we have balance (brackets are the possibles)
Pace
Walker, Simpson, Murphy, Chambers, and (Russell)



I wouldn't be pinning my hopes on Chambers


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:12 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Rhys26 wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Footballer first, Atheletes second people.

IMHO, we have balance (brackets are the possibles)
Pace
Walker, Simpson, Murphy, Chambers, and (Russell)



I wouldn't be pinning my hopes on Chambers


He's an interesting and frustrating one at times isn't he Rhys.
Lets just see but I have a feeling Pagan wants to give him a red hot go.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:20 am 
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Harry Vallence

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SurreyBlue wrote:

He's an interesting and frustrating one at times isn't he Rhys.
Lets just see but I have a feeling Pagan wants to give him a red hot go.


He ain't up to AFL standard.
The only reason he is still in our list is because of the 2 year contract.
Will be gone at seasons end.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:49 am 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:41 am
Posts: 8
Couldnt be happier with how we went in this years draft, personally i dont think speed will be a major problem next year.

We will have walker playing through the midfield who has genuiane pace! Eddie has burst speed in the foawrd line, think we will also find russell playing alot more football this year as he has bulked up and is also very quick. Add to these guys waite who will run all day and isnt slow and one of either bannister or chambers (hopefully chambers steps up next yr injury free!) Simpson and murphy also have some good pace on them. Should make for a quickish side. Another draft and we will be fine.

Only pick im not 100% sure about is flint, he is use to playing KPP at U/18 level, which he wont be able to do at AFL level so we are drafting him on complete chance, but for a rookie selection would not complain.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:51 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Chambers has shocking hands

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:08 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Rhys26 wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:

He's an interesting and frustrating one at times isn't he Rhys.
Lets just see but I have a feeling Pagan wants to give him a red hot go.


He ain't up to AFL standard.
The only reason he is still in our list is because of the 2 year contract.
Will be gone at seasons end.


Agree with Rhys. We have a good balance of players, but not many of them are any good. Hopefully next year we can pick a quick inside midfielder (another Murphy) with our first pick (probably a pretty early one), and use Walker as an outside player.. an Aker-esque wingman. Then we can slowly start marginalising the Chambers of the side

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:14 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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At least in this year's recruiting we've taken a few more steps forward than the backward ones, we'll have a few more years yet of small backward steps as the defiencies in our list are ironed out. But we're moving ahead with better purpose now IMO.

Thanks for the update too CM, great stuff. 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:17 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Sorry Cazza, but I think that Hawthorn out-did us once again. :roll: :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:03 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Pafloyul wrote:
Sorry Cazza, but I think that Hawthorn out-did us once again. :roll: :lol:


http://www.hawkheadquarters.com/

Just in case you feel the need to jump on the bandwagon elsewhere. :wink:

Regards Cazzesman

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:27 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 am
Posts: 1971
In Defence of Jacko by 79Vintage

To add to the effusive support of Cazzesman, people say Jacko is slow, but he does anticipate and sets off on a lead to the ball before his opponent. And he always keeps up with his opponent through sheer determination & I have never seen him passed by an opponent in a chase for a ball. In my opinion what he needs to do is harness his enthusiasm and use his engine more wisely, so he can develop more speed, rather than trying to do everything like he attempted in the U18's & hopefully he'll do that by being set in a certain position and given clear direction in how the coaches want him to play - a positive for him is he was a role player for the Knights this year and is very capable of being given a specific job.

He ws taken in the Rookie draft, so he obviously has areas of improvement, but after last years U 18 Carnival when he played against the best U18 talent, I made the assessment he just has to be told that the things he does without an opponent he can do to win contest ball, to me he was a different player when he had the run of the ball to when an opponent had the run of the ball. I don't think he's a shirker, he just lacked the confidence in himself to win the run of the contested ball. To my eyes, if he learns to do this, I think he could turn into a very good player aka Melbourne's Brad Green, who by the Melbourne site is 184 cms???. At this stage, someone couldn't assess what deficiency Jacko could fill on our list, but in the best scenario he could fill many - run with, link, inside running, medium marking forward. Or at worst he could be out the door within a year - which with his attitude I personally doubt.

As to next year's draft, um, apart from Gibbs, who I haven't seen but have only read about, with a year to the draft the next five best prospects are all talls, and that's pretty clear to me. So if a pacy midfielder with skills is available & Gibbs is gone, do we recruit to type and not on a best talent available policy? Personally, after analysing our list, which I'm meaning to post, I'm of the opinion we have most position bases covered, but as said above it's our quality that needs assessment, which can only be done in time, & as much as it looks at the moment that we need two pacy midfielders with skill, more definitely we need a quality versatile tall match winner. I don't think we have a definite match winning tall on our list, in a speculative assessment I think we need a quality tall to allow our other young talls to develop playing their natural games under less pressure - this way we'll get the best out of tem & they'll avoid the pressure that a Livingston & Thronton have been put under.

One of the reasons why I was so adamant that we secure Murphy at about Round 15 last year, was that his evasive and delivery skills once he won the contested or stoppage ball, would draw and isolate defenders from his Carlton teammates and thus allow our other midfilders to play their natural games. ie Stevens to run an inside line - Bentick to work on the inside & kick the ball long under pressure - Walker to play the Mcleod role that many people crave. I think Murphy's contribution will make our midfield growingly effective, maybe to the point where people may say we need one extra class midfield addition and not two. To me, our list needs on going assessment, it's not as simple as saying after a disappointing 2005, that we need two instead of one pacy skilful midfielders. By the way, that's the optimistic assessment. :garthp:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:38 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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with the PPs now gone, I dare say we'll have a top 5 pick next year.... that might get us access to some really great midfield talent, presumably the best midfielder (and hopefully a quick one at that! Gibbs?) going around.... assuming its a line-ball between that player and a tall. If we have pick 1, lets say, and pick 1 is a KPP and far-and-away the best talent, I suppose we'd have to pick him and trade for some pace... Like Fevola for Cooney maybe :-D

Yes, I believe like Synbad that its an incremental development thing, and that we're building a solid base.... now we just need racing stripes, but they'll come next

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:21 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Vintage,

Jetta a chance to go top 5?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:45 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 am
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Effes wrote:
Vintage,

Jetta a chance to go top 5?


Effes,

Not in my books, by what I've seen and know, I have Jetta 176cm just inside the top 10. The other mids I have in a prospective top 10 are Gibbs 187cm, Proud 179cm, Selwood 181. Things could change, but I don't think they'll change that much.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:44 pm 
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Ken Hands
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Posts: 436
Vintage and Cazzesman you two seem to possess a very strong knowledge on the emerging talent in this year's draft. Are you both talent scouts or just football junkies?

Also, what is your assessment of Wayne Hughes as the head of our recruiting?

Would also like to hear who Carlton would have taken should Edwards not have been available at 36. I doubt it would have been Ryan and your thoughts on Toovey?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:53 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Maybe :wink:, Yes and Yes.

Excellent (I'm bias)

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... php?t=6887
will help fill in the gaps.

Regards Cazzesman

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