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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:32 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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jim wrote:
camelboy wrote:
I remember thinking 2001 was going to be a dud season, and of course, was pleasantly surprised. In the end though, it just made 2002 even worse. But I think the seeds were sewn a lot earlier as Tyrants suggested. Our failure to use the draft, even a little bit, is as much to blame for our predicament as our poor financial health. If we couldn't see that before, let alone after, trading for O'Reilly and Mansfield, then it was no surprise we went for McKernan.

:|
While our recruiting was a disgrace at that time, I had no problems with the O'Reilly trade at the time, given SOS was coming to the end of his career, as he'd come off playing some outstanding footy for Freo. Sadly he got a back injury and it didn't work out. As for McKernan, well, he won the B & F, kicked 40 goals as forward as well as carrying our rucks (and forward line) all on his own for most of the year. He was terrific that year. 2003, he, like most of the team, and the current one, couldn't see eye to eye with the coach. We got the last of the best of Corey. Mansfield, on the other hand, was an absolute shocker.

I think the problem since 2002 was discipline, recruiting (Big Jack not coming to terms with the draft and salary cap), and coaches the players did/do not respect, hence a a complete and total lack of committment (except for 2004 & the wizzer). Most of the players of 2002/3 played in the 99 GF and the excellent season of 2000 (13 wins straight) and 2001 so their was no excuse for those two season's performances. Even if we missed the 8 we shouldn't have been on the bottom.


As bad as Mansfield was for us he surely was more value than O'Reilly. Mansfield had one ok season in 2000 while I can barely remember O'Reilly playing.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:46 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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I can't remember what we gave up to get O'Reilly, probably way too much.

Like Sheik, I too had been critical of Carlton’s recruiting methods after successes such as the 1995 grand final. In fact, it has probably jaded me for the time being.

I am hoping reminders such as threads like these will explain my cynicism.


A star tall and a Nigel Lappin type midfielder in next years draft and I’ll be happy.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:09 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Pafloyul wrote:
I can't remember what we gave up to get O'Reilly, probably way too much.



We gave up our first 3 picks in the 99 draft for Mansfield & O'Reilly. Our first pick was 60.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:10 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:09 am
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In those years when we traded away draft picks for players like Mansfield, O'Reilly etc, can anyone provide a list of players that were actually selected by the teams that took our picks. It would be interesting to see if those teams really gained by the trades.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:13 pm 
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Robert Walls

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BlueBern wrote:
In those years when we traded away draft picks for players like Mansfield, O'Reilly etc, can anyone provide a list of players that were actually selected by the teams that took our picks. It would be interesting to see if those teams really gained by the trades.

31 Paul Chapman
16 David Haynes
46 Adam Butler


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:32 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Yes, but that does not tell the whole story, we did not have to pick the same players.

P.S Actually it was Corey Enright who was Geelong’s last pick. We could have had Weatley, Giansiracusa and Cameron Bruce.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:50 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8229
TheGame wrote:
jim wrote:
camelboy wrote:
I remember thinking 2001 was going to be a dud season, and of course, was pleasantly surprised. In the end though, it just made 2002 even worse. But I think the seeds were sewn a lot earlier as Tyrants suggested. Our failure to use the draft, even a little bit, is as much to blame for our predicament as our poor financial health. If we couldn't see that before, let alone after, trading for O'Reilly and Mansfield, then it was no surprise we went for McKernan.

:|
While our recruiting was a disgrace at that time, I had no problems with the O'Reilly trade at the time, given SOS was coming to the end of his career, as he'd come off playing some outstanding footy for Freo. Sadly he got a back injury and it didn't work out. As for McKernan, well, he won the B & F, kicked 40 goals as forward as well as carrying our rucks (and forward line) all on his own for most of the year. He was terrific that year. 2003, he, like most of the team, and the current one, couldn't see eye to eye with the coach. We got the last of the best of Corey. Mansfield, on the other hand, was an absolute shocker.

I think the problem since 2002 was discipline, recruiting (Big Jack not coming to terms with the draft and salary cap), and coaches the players did/do not respect, hence a a complete and total lack of committment (except for 2004 & the wizzer). Most of the players of 2002/3 played in the 99 GF and the excellent season of 2000 (13 wins straight) and 2001 so their was no excuse for those two season's performances. Even if we missed the 8 we shouldn't have been on the bottom.


As bad as Mansfield was for us he surely was more value than O'Reilly. Mansfield had one ok season in 2000 while I can barely remember O'Reilly playing.
O'Reilly ended up with a back injury, something you don't forsee, but at the time it semed a reasonable move, a better one than Mansfield, just back luck. Even so, the frist 3 picks were not worth it at all and sums up our recruiting. Mansfield, gee that still bothers me. A 3rd rounder for O'Reilly (without the benefit of hindsight of course) would have been enough. With the benefit of hindsight......nothing!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:15 am 
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Harry Vallence
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O'Reilly was missing games due to migraines and playing poorly for Freo before he was signed. It was a poor decision to recruit him and I thought that it was pretty obvious at the time.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:53 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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steve wrote:
O'Reilly was missing games due to migraines and playing poorly for Freo before he was signed. It was a poor decision to recruit him and I thought that it was pretty obvious at the time.


yes, and he would have been pushing 30 at the time too.. maybe 27/28? if he was taken to replace SOS, it wouldnt have been for very long.

An absolutely shocking trade in anyone's language.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:16 am 
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Bruce Doull
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O'Reilly was a Sticks Kernahan stroke of magic.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:27 am 
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Ken Hunter
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hmmm is this the new target Synners? 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:41 am 
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Bruce Doull
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dannyboy wrote:
hmmm is this the new target Synners? 8)


Sticks should not be on the match comittee.
He is clueless.
He likes to be liked by everyone and so cant make any hard decisions.
Goes with whatever the flow is at the time and not his own beliefs. (which is probably a good thing i reckon)

But he should be nowhere near the match committee..
His job should only be to go out and talk to potential recruits. He is very likeable.

But thats it!!!

Get away from the match committee Sticks....

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:52 am 
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Ken Hunter
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:lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:50 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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You puppet master you...

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:53 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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:-D :-D :-D

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:55 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:44 am
Posts: 539
TheSheik wrote:
This comment was made a few years down the track from '95 and people didn't understand why I said these things. I was given some serious backlash from people about it suggesting that I didn't know what I'm talking about (Elwood can back me up on this).


I can back you up on this and you still don't know what you're talking about.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:01 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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billy_bongo wrote:
I can back you up on this and you still don't know what you're talking about.


And that is some really worthwhile reading there Mastermind !!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:07 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:44 am
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TheSheik wrote:
billy_bongo wrote:
I can back you up on this and you still don't know what you're talking about.


And that is some really worthwhile reading there Mastermind !!


I do try to write specifically for my intended audience.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:56 am 
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Ken Hunter
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:lol: the jungle drums have spoken shieskter.

BB speaks not with forked tongue but, rather, [REDACTED] tongue 8)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:27 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Oooooh...........

this looks like a nice convoh...........can i join in........?


kindest regards tommi







i like the sound of these drums.............!

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