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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:34 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18078
Blue Monday wrote:
I don't actually think the game plan is the problem, its the application of the game plan that is. Each players role and their effort in keeping to the role is what seems to fall over at critical times.



It's more than the "application of the game plan" IMHO. The same errors are occurring every week without retribution so the only conclusion is the players are following instructions.

I've been a fan of our backline (mainly our key backs) but the positioning and method of our small defenders has been doing my head in for quite some time. If you look up the ground at our defenders at a stop play situation, they are usually reasonably positioned with their opponents but as soon as the ball is in a kinetic mode, our defenders drop off and protect the defensive side, even if the ball is 80 metres away.
Good players and systems understand where the dangerous space is and position themselves to suit. If the ball is 80 metres away, the dangerous space is between the opponent and the ball. A good defender will guard that space and prevent his opponent winning it by winning the ball first or neutralising the contest at worst.
Our defenders take the back position, allow their opponent to win it up the ground and we circle back to fill space.
@#$%&! that!. Don't concede the possession. Do you see Sydney or Melbourne concede a possession by dropping off the opposition forwards. Unless the opposition suddenly learned to kick the ball 90 metres, the ball isn't getting out the back!
If that is an instruction, Teague, Amos or whoever allows it should be sacked. It facilitates a lack of accountability and an excuse not to stop their opponent. Folding back and filling in space or blocking leading lanes is not the role of a defender. Stopping their opponent is. Get the midfielders back and make them fill space.

Kickouts. Defending the kickouts was diabolical on Sunday. We continuously conceded the kickout and then tried to defend the next kick. It was woeful. They were finding free players 70 metres from our goal! Man the @#$%&! up and ensure their are no free targets. At a stop play situation, there are no excuses.
Our kickouts. Seriously, if the best they can do is kick it to Harry, Levi or Crippa, get a new job. I didn't attend uni but when I was at school, having 100% of something and giving up 50% for no reason wasn't a smart idea. That's our kickouts. We have 100% possession and we kick it long to a 50/50 contest. If we can't come up with some strategies to free up a player, block, use running players or create space to use, go back to part time coaches because several days of the week are being pissed up against the wall.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:09 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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BV for Head Coach !!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:12 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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As far as I can tell the last time this club had a decent kick out strategy was 1995, when SOS kicked it short to Matthew Hogg/Ange Christou who then distributed the ball longer to either Kouta, Kernahan or Madden.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:24 pm 
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John Nicholls
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AGRO wrote:
As far as I can tell the last time this club had a decent kick out strategy was 1995, when SOS kicked it short to Matthew Hogg/Ange Christou who then distributed the ball longer to either Kouta, Kernahan or Madden.


Or when Christou lined up for goal from the goalsquare (in defence).

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:12 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4629
Blue Vain wrote:
Blue Monday wrote:
I don't actually think the game plan is the problem, its the application of the game plan that is. Each players role and their effort in keeping to the role is what seems to fall over at critical times.



It's more than the "application of the game plan" IMHO. The same errors are occurring every week without retribution so the only conclusion is the players are following instructions.

I've been a fan of our backline (mainly our key backs) but the positioning and method of our small defenders has been doing my head in for quite some time. If you look up the ground at our defenders at a stop play situation, they are usually reasonably positioned with their opponents but as soon as the ball is in a kinetic mode, our defenders drop off and protect the defensive side, even if the ball is 80 metres away.
Good players and systems understand where the dangerous space is and position themselves to suit. If the ball is 80 metres away, the dangerous space is between the opponent and the ball. A good defender will guard that space and prevent his opponent winning it by winning the ball first or neutralising the contest at worst.
Our defenders take the back position, allow their opponent to win it up the ground and we circle back to fill space.
@#$%&! that!. Don't concede the possession. Do you see Sydney or Melbourne concede a possession by dropping off the opposition forwards. Unless the opposition suddenly learned to kick the ball 90 metres, the ball isn't getting out the back!
If that is an instruction, Teague, Amos or whoever allows it should be sacked. It facilitates a lack of accountability and an excuse not to stop their opponent. Folding back and filling in space or blocking leading lanes is not the role of a defender. Stopping their opponent is. Get the midfielders back and make them fill space.

Kickouts. Defending the kickouts was diabolical on Sunday. We continuously conceded the kickout and then tried to defend the next kick. It was woeful. They were finding free players 70 metres from our goal! Man the @#$%&! up and ensure their are no free targets. At a stop play situation, there are no excuses.
Our kickouts. Seriously, if the best they can do is kick it to Harry, Levi or Crippa, get a new job. I didn't attend uni but when I was at school, having 100% of something and giving up 50% for no reason wasn't a smart idea. That's our kickouts. We have 100% possession and we kick it long to a 50/50 contest. If we can't come up with some strategies to free up a player, block, use running players or create space to use, go back to part time coaches because several days of the week are being pissed up against the wall.
:clap:

Just a start BV

I love the way we take our first kick out like we weren't expecting there to be one....

Pur ability to adapt to opposition tactics still does my head in too...

I wish I could type....
At this rate it would take me a week to type half the stuff we do wrong in the first quarter.

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:48 am 
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Bruce Doull
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I think we continue to underestimate the loss of Neil Craig a few years ago.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:52 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 1862
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Donstuie wrote:
I think we continue to underestimate the loss of Neil Craig a few years ago.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:15 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7777
Location: Bendigo
Donstuie wrote:
I think we continue to underestimate the loss of Neil Craig a few years ago.

Maybe that’s what Playfair was doing all last year - trying to open his old filing cabinet?

He’s done @#$%&! all else.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:24 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Crusader wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I think we continue to underestimate the loss of Neil Craig a few years ago.

Maybe that’s what Playfair was doing all last year - trying to open his old filing cabinet?

He’s done @#$%&! all else.

In fairness, I doubt Playfair even got the chance to set up his office before they had to give him the boot.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:36 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3562
Blue Vain wrote:
Blue Monday wrote:
I don't actually think the game plan is the problem, its the application of the game plan that is. Each players role and their effort in keeping to the role is what seems to fall over at critical times.



It's more than the "application of the game plan" IMHO. The same errors are occurring every week without retribution so the only conclusion is the players are following instructions.

I've been a fan of our backline (mainly our key backs) but the positioning and method of our small defenders has been doing my head in for quite some time. If you look up the ground at our defenders at a stop play situation, they are usually reasonably positioned with their opponents but as soon as the ball is in a kinetic mode, our defenders drop off and protect the defensive side, even if the ball is 80 metres away.
Good players and systems understand where the dangerous space is and position themselves to suit. If the ball is 80 metres away, the dangerous space is between the opponent and the ball. A good defender will guard that space and prevent his opponent winning it by winning the ball first or neutralising the contest at worst.
Our defenders take the back position, allow their opponent to win it up the ground and we circle back to fill space.
@#$%&! that!. Don't concede the possession. Do you see Sydney or Melbourne concede a possession by dropping off the opposition forwards. Unless the opposition suddenly learned to kick the ball 90 metres, the ball isn't getting out the back!
If that is an instruction, Teague, Amos or whoever allows it should be sacked. It facilitates a lack of accountability and an excuse not to stop their opponent. Folding back and filling in space or blocking leading lanes is not the role of a defender. Stopping their opponent is. Get the midfielders back and make them fill space.

Kickouts. Defending the kickouts was diabolical on Sunday. We continuously conceded the kickout and then tried to defend the next kick. It was woeful. They were finding free players 70 metres from our goal! Man the @#$%&! up and ensure their are no free targets. At a stop play situation, there are no excuses.
Our kickouts. Seriously, if the best they can do is kick it to Harry, Levi or Crippa, get a new job. I didn't attend uni but when I was at school, having 100% of something and giving up 50% for no reason wasn't a smart idea. That's our kickouts. We have 100% possession and we kick it long to a 50/50 contest. If we can't come up with some strategies to free up a player, block, use running players or create space to use, go back to part time coaches because several days of the week are being pissed up against the wall.


You've assumed there are equal numbers at the contest. I'd say we kick to 40/60 contests more often than not

Our gameplan of having possession and then (a) handballing it to someone who is about to get crunched in a tackle, (b) handballing to a statue who wasn't expecting the handball, (c) kicking it to someone with a defender behind them who has disregard for covid social distancing rules or (d) kicking it long to a crowded goal area (which by the way is bereft of small fwds or mids to swoop) while a better option presented itself but was ignored...makes my blood pressure go through the roof.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:38 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3562
grrofunger wrote:
BV for Head Coach !!!!


Would prefer his brother Michael

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:01 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 18764
Location: threeohfivethree
grrofunger wrote:
BV for Head Coach !!!!


Problem is I'm not sure BV wants the head job...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:05 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25663
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
Blue Monday wrote:
I don't actually think the game plan is the problem, its the application of the game plan that is. Each players role and their effort in keeping to the role is what seems to fall over at critical times.



It's more than the "application of the game plan" IMHO. The same errors are occurring every week without retribution so the only conclusion is the players are following instructions.

I've been a fan of our backline (mainly our key backs) but the positioning and method of our small defenders has been doing my head in for quite some time. If you look up the ground at our defenders at a stop play situation, they are usually reasonably positioned with their opponents but as soon as the ball is in a kinetic mode, our defenders drop off and protect the defensive side, even if the ball is 80 metres away.
Good players and systems understand where the dangerous space is and position themselves to suit. If the ball is 80 metres away, the dangerous space is between the opponent and the ball. A good defender will guard that space and prevent his opponent winning it by winning the ball first or neutralising the contest at worst.
Our defenders take the back position, allow their opponent to win it up the ground and we circle back to fill space.
@#$%&! that!. Don't concede the possession. Do you see Sydney or Melbourne concede a possession by dropping off the opposition forwards. Unless the opposition suddenly learned to kick the ball 90 metres, the ball isn't getting out the back!
If that is an instruction, Teague, Amos or whoever allows it should be sacked. It facilitates a lack of accountability and an excuse not to stop their opponent. Folding back and filling in space or blocking leading lanes is not the role of a defender. Stopping their opponent is. Get the midfielders back and make them fill space.

Kickouts. Defending the kickouts was diabolical on Sunday. We continuously conceded the kickout and then tried to defend the next kick. It was woeful. They were finding free players 70 metres from our goal! Man the @#$%&! up and ensure their are no free targets. At a stop play situation, there are no excuses.
Our kickouts. Seriously, if the best they can do is kick it to Harry, Levi or Crippa, get a new job. I didn't attend uni but when I was at school, having 100% of something and giving up 50% for no reason wasn't a smart idea. That's our kickouts. We have 100% possession and we kick it long to a 50/50 contest. If we can't come up with some strategies to free up a player, block, use running players or create space to use, go back to part time coaches because several days of the week are being pissed up against the wall.


Absolutely BV. plus can add corralling. Allow opponent to win the ball (which is basically giving up the contest), then allow them to dispose the ball where they want because corralling is not trying to get the ball

Basic principles of defensive actions and keeping the ball in our possession highlighted. Its so obvious. Shits me no end. Its piss weak.

What about the centre bounce when the oppodition have a winning ruckman. Why are the mids positioned expecting our ruck to win? and/ why are they not reading the opposition/dominant ruckman?

Whats going on? It has to be coaching.

I agree Defenders have an opponent and we are not playing a Clarkson Cluster strategy, so what's the 7th defender doing not p[lugging the lead lanes (Williamson vs Pies and Port), and where's the defensive mindset of the mids to fill holes let alone chance their man?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:07 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25663
Location: Bondi Beach
bondiblue wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Blue Monday wrote:
I don't actually think the game plan is the problem, its the application of the game plan that is. Each players role and their effort in keeping to the role is what seems to fall over at critical times.



It's more than the "application of the game plan" IMHO. The same errors are occurring every week without retribution so the only conclusion is the players are following instructions.

I've been a fan of our backline (mainly our key backs) but the positioning and method of our small defenders has been doing my head in for quite some time. If you look up the ground at our defenders at a stop play situation, they are usually reasonably positioned with their opponents but as soon as the ball is in a kinetic mode, our defenders drop off and protect the defensive side, even if the ball is 80 metres away.
Good players and systems understand where the dangerous space is and position themselves to suit. If the ball is 80 metres away, the dangerous space is between the opponent and the ball. A good defender will guard that space and prevent his opponent winning it by winning the ball first or neutralising the contest at worst.
Our defenders take the back position, allow their opponent to win it up the ground and we circle back to fill space.
@#$%&! that!. Don't concede the possession. Do you see Sydney or Melbourne concede a possession by dropping off the opposition forwards. Unless the opposition suddenly learned to kick the ball 90 metres, the ball isn't getting out the back!
If that is an instruction, Teague, Amos or whoever allows it should be sacked. It facilitates a lack of accountability and an excuse not to stop their opponent. Folding back and filling in space or blocking leading lanes is not the role of a defender. Stopping their opponent is. Get the midfielders back and make them fill space.

Kickouts. Defending the kickouts was diabolical on Sunday. We continuously conceded the kickout and then tried to defend the next kick. It was woeful. They were finding free players 70 metres from our goal! Man the @#$%&! up and ensure their are no free targets. At a stop play situation, there are no excuses.
Our kickouts. Seriously, if the best they can do is kick it to Harry, Levi or Crippa, get a new job. I didn't attend uni but when I was at school, having 100% of something and giving up 50% for no reason wasn't a smart idea. That's our kickouts. We have 100% possession and we kick it long to a 50/50 contest. If we can't come up with some strategies to free up a player, block, use running players or create space to use, go back to part time coaches because several days of the week are being pissed up against the wall.


Absolutely BV. plus can add corralling. Allow opponent to win the ball (which is basically giving up the contest), then allow them to dispose the ball where they want because corralling is not trying to get the ball

Basic principles of defensive actions and keeping the ball in our possession highlighted. Its so obvious. Shits me no end. Its piss weak.

What about the centre bounce when the oppodition have a winning ruckman. Why are the mids positioned expecting our ruck to win? and/ why are they not reading the opposition/dominant ruckman?

Whats going on? It has to be coaching.

I agree Defenders have an opponent and we are not playing a Clarkson Cluster strategy, so what's the 7th defender doing not p[lugging the lead lanes (Williamson vs Pies and Port), and where's the defensive mindset of the mids to fill holes let alone chance their man?


You don't need to go to Uni to know footy and the costs of not doing the fundamentals, and this is whjat you're alluding to.

FMD. week in week out, same thing.
You can't blame injuries on that.
Williamson was not on the programme in those 2 games.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:03 pm 
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John Nicholls
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GWS wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
BV for Head Coach !!!!


Problem is I'm not sure BV wants the head job...


Who'd knock back a head job?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:13 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 10640
GWS wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
BV for Head Coach !!!!


Problem is I'm not sure BV wants the head job...


There’s plenty of assistance positions available or there should be.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:01 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 13547
Location: Melbourne
I just feel sakcing Teague, even if the Eagles B-team beats us, isn't going to solve much given our coaching merry-go-round.

If we sakc him we'll probably be having this exact same conversation in 2 years time about his replacement....

Remember he only came on board mid 2019, and last year wasn't a normal season in any way.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:02 pm 
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formerly Josh Kaplan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:19 pm
Posts: 2187
I don’t understand that logic. Why persist with a substandard coach. Keep searching until you find the right one. Teague lost me a while ago, but his job would be borderline untenable at 4-8 after losing to an Eagles WAFL side. We are not getting anywhere near enough from player 7-22 each week.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:24 am 
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formerly King Kenny
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Posts: 20076
Average loss of 31pts since 2019.

He has made us competitive, just needs to show he can take us to that next stage. 10-12 wins is what I expected this year, and is the watermark for a pass.

I can also see he is starting to phase out Casboult now The King is back, although no idea what they were thinking last week. Murphy dropped as well was a great sign.

Owies, Cots, Stocker all getting reward for effort in the VFL this year, another positive.

It’s simply what we do when we don’t have the ball and the control of play is in the oppositions hands that needs to be addressed. Fix that and we become a finals team. From there we can build towards top 4 and competing for a Premiership.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:52 am 
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Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
I rate Teague as a senior coach and view him as the best young coach in the game.

The only thing I don't like he gives away much of our game plan in press conferences - prefer if he always has tricks up his sleeve and keeps opposition guessing.

I am not a fan when opposition always know how we are going to play. I guess thats his next evolution.


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