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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 6:52 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Well bloody said!

(Yes. I am also carrying on like a toddler. I want to make Carlton great again dammit).

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 7:46 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25545
Location: Bondi Beach
Traveller86 wrote:
robertbb wrote:
Guys seriously, our list as good as the Pies?

The team made a grand final only a few years ago and their list runs very, very deep despite losing a few in their fire sale a few years back (Treloar and Stevenson), then Grundy last year... (offset by the fact they slotted in a Brownlow medallist into their midfield).

They have real leaders on every line: forward, middle and back.

Even the Bulldogs have a bunch of players who've seen finals and a flag.

Compare us to the Saints, maybe.


Thank you.

People seem to forget, when we were 8-2 last year, we weren't exactly setting the world on fire:

Richmond game - Played 2 quarters
Dogs game - One amazing quarter, hanging on for life in the second half, Dogs wasteful
Hawks game - Won by 1 point after giving up a 40 point lead in the second half
Port game - Won by 3 points after giving up a 50 point lead in the second half
Sydney - See Dogs game above

Wins vs GWS, North and Adelaide were par.

The 8-2 ledger masked our true level, and seduced us all.

We've only added Acres and first year players, yet, somehow, we should go from a 12-10 side to an 18-4 side overnight?

Better than the Pies? Same team was consistently in the finals and had one bad year (COVID interrupted so can't read much into it), topped up with youth and a superstar father son player, retained the same core of senior players.

Where is this delusion coming from?

We're honestly carrying on like a bunch of toddlers who aren't getting the toys they want and chucking tantrums.


You're right in some ways.

You just go back and look at the make up of the team from our Top 10 players, in their best position, and see what needs to be filled around them to know we need to fill out with a lot of players to make up a group of 30 players.

You should also find you will not have your neither of our first 2 rucks are a top 10 player, but you go from there and weave a team.

We are not a superstar team.

I will give you my Top 10 or 12, and I already know 3 of them are out injured or injury prone: Williams, Marchbank, McGovern, and who knows what Cuningham could have been. I see Hollands and Motlop as our 1tth and 12th bonafide role player in the future. After that, we need that Middle Class to play at AFL level and star.

Our "Middle" class, we need the middle class to win this.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 7:52 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25545
Location: Bondi Beach
robertbb wrote:
Well bloody said!

(Yes. I am also carrying on like a toddler. I want to make Carlton great again dammit).



Youre on fire Robbie

Adelaide holiday was probably like the weather, perfect but the loss knocked you aroung a bit, and the Lions just topped it off.

Damn it we have a great Top 10 players but the fabric to weave a team isn't of great quality at the moment.


There's no guarantees in this game, but lets just fkn make finals FFs, coz at the moment its looking embarrassing.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 7:54 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Back to the thread

No doubt we need another quality running midfielder to compliment Cerra and Walsh.

How did Lions lure over Lachie Neale, and retain him? Someone like that.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 7:55 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25545
Location: Bondi Beach
Hewett is a great trade and cheap
Kennedy has developed as an inside mid and cheap

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 8:06 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
Cripps to WC
WC give us their #1 pick (assuming they finish last)
We use the #1 pick on Harley Reid

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 9:07 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24654
Location: Kaloyasena
99prelim wrote:
Cripps to WC
WC give us their #1 pick (assuming they finish last)
We use the #1 pick on Harley Reid



How many first round draft picks did Geelong give GWS for Jeremy Cameron again???


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2023 9:30 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3261
Traveller86 wrote:
robertbb wrote:
Guys seriously, our list as good as the Pies?

The team made a grand final only a few years ago and their list runs very, very deep despite losing a few in their fire sale a few years back (Treloar and Stevenson), then Grundy last year... (offset by the fact they slotted in a Brownlow medallist into their midfield).

They have real leaders on every line: forward, middle and back.

Even the Bulldogs have a bunch of players who've seen finals and a flag.

Compare us to the Saints, maybe.


Thank you.

People seem to forget, when we were 8-2 last year, we weren't exactly setting the world on fire:

Richmond game - Played 2 quarters
Dogs game - One amazing quarter, hanging on for life in the second half, Dogs wasteful
Hawks game - Won by 1 point after giving up a 40 point lead in the second half
Port game - Won by 3 points after giving up a 50 point lead in the second half
Sydney - See Dogs game above

Wins vs GWS, North and Adelaide were par.

The 8-2 ledger masked our true level, and seduced us all.

We've only added Acres and first year players, yet, somehow, we should go from a 12-10 side to an 18-4 side overnight?

Better than the Pies? Same team was consistently in the finals and had one bad year (COVID interrupted so can't read much into it), topped up with youth and a superstar father son player, retained the same core of senior players.

Where is this delusion coming from?

We're honestly carrying on like a bunch of toddlers who aren't getting the toys they want and chucking tantrums.

No delusion over here.
We can argue as much as we like about list comparisons. And yes I agree we need more pieces to the jigsaw.
My view is that it is much more than talent and if we don’t think so then I would call that delusional.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 10:47 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 1390
SEN banging the drum for us to consider Chad Wingard at season end.

Mixed feelings on it. From afar, I think he's a me first player to a point where it becomes a toxic influence, plays when he wants and has a serious case of the head drops when it gets tough. Question marks around whether he's still got it too.

On the other hand, we desperately need a player of that ilk in our forward 50. Ideally it would have been Breust at some point, but feel like he's also fallen away to a point of no longer delivering to AFL standard, and would also like someone who could rotate through the midfield.

Michael Walters out of contract and Freo could do with a rebuild. At 32, probably not ideal. Slim pickings elsewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 11:57 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25545
Location: Bondi Beach
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
SEN banging the drum for us to consider Chad Wingard at season end.

Mixed feelings on it. From afar, I think he's a me first player to a point where it becomes a toxic influence, plays when he wants and has a serious case of the head drops when it gets tough. Question marks around whether he's still got it too.

On the other hand, we desperately need a player of that ilk in our forward 50. Ideally it would have been Breust at some point, but feel like he's also fallen away to a point of no longer delivering to AFL standard, and would also like someone who could rotate through the midfield.

Michael Walters out of contract and Freo could do with a rebuild. At 32, probably not ideal. Slim pickings elsewhere.


WE need someone who can mark and kick goals in the forwardline.
We miss an in form Jack Martin who is injury prone.
I feel 3 smalls in one too many and we need a better mix forward.

Chad turns 30 next year and has played 6 games in 2023. He's kicked 2 goals and assisted in 3.
Durdin played 7 has kicked 9 and assisted in 2, and Motlop played 7 has kicked 8 and assisted in 2.
Owies has played 3 games for 6 goals and 1 assist.

Owies is a keeper.
Will Motlop or Durdin improve their game next year?
Chad and Walters are far from their best imo.

We have to target an in contract player who we need.
There will be space with marchbank and Cuningham not likely to be retained due to injury.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 12:09 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 2134
No thanks, we have enough fairweather players as it is.

Go to draft and/or look for mature age hidden gems in the state leagues.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 12:12 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25545
Location: Bondi Beach
Traveller86 wrote:
No thanks, we have enough fairweather players as it is.

Go to draft and/or look for mature age hidden gems in the state leagues.


Yep. Look elsewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 12:25 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
SEN banging the drum for us to consider Chad Wingard at season end.

Mixed feelings on it. From afar, I think he's a me first player to a point where it becomes a toxic influence, plays when he wants and has a serious case of the head drops when it gets tough. Question marks around whether he's still got it too.

On the other hand, we desperately need a player of that ilk in our forward 50. Ideally it would have been Breust at some point, but feel like he's also fallen away to a point of no longer delivering to AFL standard, and would also like someone who could rotate through the midfield.

Michael Walters out of contract and Freo could do with a rebuild. At 32, probably not ideal. Slim pickings elsewhere.



Noooooooo


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 12:31 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
bondiblue wrote:
Traveller86 wrote:
No thanks, we have enough fairweather players as it is.

Go to draft and/or look for mature age hidden gems in the state leagues.


Yep. Look elsewhere.


Martin has another year
Will McGovern stay?
I believe we will see improvement in Durdin & Motlop with another pre season and better ball entry
I'd let TDK go and chase Himmelberg from GWS
A Toby Greene type (anyone simialr) would be awesome for us

I really wanted Gunston at the end of last year. Would have been very handy


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 12:33 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 2134
We need a 25 year old version of Gunston.

Gunston is a great player but wouldn't have fit our profile - we aren't close to a flag like Brisbane.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 12:51 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6458
AGRO wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Cripps to WC
WC give us their #1 pick (assuming they finish last)
We use the #1 pick on Harley Reid



How many first round draft picks did Geelong give GWS for Jeremy Cameron again???


:lol: :lol: :lol:

3 agro
But 2 second rounders in return


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 12:54 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 9354
Traveller86 wrote:
We need a 25 year old version of Gunston.

Gunston is a great player but wouldn't have fit our profile - we aren't close to a flag like Brisbane.


Agree. That's the role Martin is supposed to be playing and which we sometimes ask JSOS to play.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 12:59 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6458
bondiblue wrote:
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
SEN banging the drum for us to consider Chad Wingard at season end.

Mixed feelings on it. From afar, I think he's a me first player to a point where it becomes a toxic influence, plays when he wants and has a serious case of the head drops when it gets tough. Question marks around whether he's still got it too.

On the other hand, we desperately need a player of that ilk in our forward 50. Ideally it would have been Breust at some point, but feel like he's also fallen away to a point of no longer delivering to AFL standard, and would also like someone who could rotate through the midfield.

Michael Walters out of contract and Freo could do with a rebuild. At 32, probably not ideal. Slim pickings elsewhere.


WE need someone who can mark and kick goals in the forwardline.
We miss an in form Jack Martin who is injury prone.
I feel 3 smalls in one too many and we need a better mix forward.

Chad turns 30 next year and has played 6 games in 2023. He's kicked 2 goals and assisted in 3.
Durdin played 7 has kicked 9 and assisted in 2, and Motlop played 7 has kicked 8 and assisted in 2.
Owies has played 3 games for 6 goals and 1 assist.

Owies is a keeper.
Will Motlop or Durdin improve their game next year?
Chad and Walters are far from their best imo.

We have to target an in contract player who we need.
There will be space with marchbank and Cuningham not likely to be retained due to injury.

Bondi
This sort of recruiting your suggesting is one of the reasons we are an average team 8 years into a rebuild
You need talent from picking kids at the draft and developing them to be at least good players by their mid 20 s
We haven’t done this but internally the club thinks we have and continue to give away picks and take up salary cap space with guys like Acres
We need to go back to the draft and pick kids for the next few years and hopefully be mostly successful at to improve . Cook has said this will happen anyway because of a lack of salary cap space
Thank god McGovern’s contract is up and Martins’ is next year
That’s 1.3 million we can better spend elsewhere on some decent kids
We aren’t good enough and need to mini rebuild and hopefully recruit better
Wingard looks on the downward spiral anyway


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 1:05 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24654
Location: Kaloyasena
Our player development over the past 20 years has been putrid - aside from our number 1 picks no draftees have really kicked on to any great heights.

Other clubs continually pick diamonds in the rough post 40+ in the draft - us hardly ever.

Is it poor drafting- probably!!!

Is it poor player development- definitely!!!

I had thought that Luke Power might have helped with this but there doesn’t appear to be any immediate evidence.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 1:10 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 2134
keogh wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
SEN banging the drum for us to consider Chad Wingard at season end.

Mixed feelings on it. From afar, I think he's a me first player to a point where it becomes a toxic influence, plays when he wants and has a serious case of the head drops when it gets tough. Question marks around whether he's still got it too.

On the other hand, we desperately need a player of that ilk in our forward 50. Ideally it would have been Breust at some point, but feel like he's also fallen away to a point of no longer delivering to AFL standard, and would also like someone who could rotate through the midfield.

Michael Walters out of contract and Freo could do with a rebuild. At 32, probably not ideal. Slim pickings elsewhere.


WE need someone who can mark and kick goals in the forwardline.
We miss an in form Jack Martin who is injury prone.
I feel 3 smalls in one too many and we need a better mix forward.

Chad turns 30 next year and has played 6 games in 2023. He's kicked 2 goals and assisted in 3.
Durdin played 7 has kicked 9 and assisted in 2, and Motlop played 7 has kicked 8 and assisted in 2.
Owies has played 3 games for 6 goals and 1 assist.

Owies is a keeper.
Will Motlop or Durdin improve their game next year?
Chad and Walters are far from their best imo.

We have to target an in contract player who we need.
There will be space with marchbank and Cuningham not likely to be retained due to injury.

Bondi
This sort of recruiting your suggesting is one of the reasons we are an average team 8 years into a rebuild
You need talent from picking kids at the draft and developing them to be at least good players by their mid 20 s
We haven’t done this but internally the club thinks we have and continue to give away picks and take up salary cap space with guys like Acres
We need to go back to the draft and pick kids for the next few years and hopefully be mostly successful at to improve . Cook has said this will happen anyway because of a lack of salary cap space
Thank god McGovern’s contract is up and Martins’ is next year
That’s 1.3 million we can better spend elsewhere on some decent kids
We aren’t good enough and need to mini rebuild and hopefully recruit better
Wingard looks on the downward spiral anyway


Spot on :clap:


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