Beaumont said Hawthorn were more scientific in their pre-season than Carlton. They lifted @#$%&! bricks. Superior intellect at work there.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Hehehe.

This threads fired up since my last visit.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Try a different game plan for a start - there is a starting point a Plan B
not have other sides work us out in 3-4 practice matches .

Make a few moves now and then you know ones like teague off stafford .
Dont through Whitnal in the ruck
Dont play half forwards off half back and half backs off half forward


Do you want me to keep going.

Dont piss your players off all the time
Try rotating players off the bench

The list goes on and Or and when you are 30-40 points up at half time in a grand final and absolutly dominating - dont freeze in the box and watch your side capitulate

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

It's changing because we've finally got some decent talent who can carry the new game plan off.

Wasn't Beaumont the clanger king when he was at Carlton? It would have been a sight to see with Lance trying to mark Beaumont's passes in Pagan's paddock.

First two years of Pagan's reign - write-off. No access to first two rounds of draft, crippled list (despite your protestations that we were clearly a top 8 team). Still manages to pick up some quality late draft youngsters (Simpson, Fisher), some quality rookie list youngsters (Carrazzo, Bentick) and some 'outside the box' rookies (Setanta and Aisake).

After that, he had full access to the draft - continued to invest in quality youth, all the while weeding out the troublemakers and rubbish.

My answer is we stick with Pagan for another two years at least, when the youth that Pagan has brought in are starting to hit their straps. Then it might be time for Pagan to step aside and let a younger, more energetic coach take over a list that is ready to explode.

Our model should be Sydney early 90's when Barrassi came in, put a broom through the place and had the team ready to attack the finals once Eade came on board.

And that is more of an answer than yourself or the Game have given.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

The guy who we replaced the so called clanger king with was the all time clanger messiah of the AFL- So try another tack Pagans paddock didnt work with him either .

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

It is not all about what players we kept or got rid of, there is more to it. His treatment of some players he left dwindling in the 2's at the expense of his lovechilds. His ancient gameplan that plays right into the hands of every team in the comp. It only works when everything goes our way and we still only scrape over the line.
How is Lance expected to perform at his best at CHF when he is expected to sprint back inside 50 to get ahead of his man when he is the slowest in the comp?
How is Teague supposed to compete with Greg Stafford?
Some of his decisions are crazy.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

That's the plan hey? List management doesn't get a look in? Should we get Parkin back to look after that side of things?

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Deano keeps asking me all these questions and it has just occured to me why am I here on a Friday night arguing about this when I can be at the pub?

Goodnight all!(except Deano )

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

What gameplan would you suggest then? Keep in mind that Pagan's plan isn't simply "bomb it long to Wayne Carey", it's "don't overposses the ball and enter the forward fifty quickly to a teammates advantage."




Fair enough, Teague on Stafford was a terrible matchup who should have switched onto him given our team that day?




Sensible point. Who should we throw in the ruck when our acknowledged ruckmen are injured, work down the list from tallest to shortest?




Who are our half forwards and who are our half backs? Keep in mind that most teams launch forward forays from the half back line.




Feel free. It's a hell of a lot more constructive discussing this stuff than most of this thread.




Players listening to a coach's instructions equals a coach who won't bawl them out for not following instructions. Maybe a two way street with this one, if the players do as they're instructed maybe they won't piss the coach off.




Agreed. We do lack depth though, so often resting better players sees the other team get a run on. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.




He coached Collingwood?

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

and whose to say there weren't more quality young late draft picks available who space on the list were taken by the crap Pagan brought in . Out of all the players that were drafted only a bloke who struggled at Collingwood has had any sort of decent ouput . allan and murphy both played finals in 2004 and Beamont led Hawthorn for marks . Our trades for them Bannister was setting track records and wanting to be a CHF - Macgath has been scatching for a kick and Clarke well enough said= Beaumont allan and murph have all now retired aand there places could have been taken by youth . but Bannister and mcgrath are still on our lists.

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

The gameplan again. Can someone please spell out this famed gameplan to me?
Lance hasn't been in any condition to perform at his best because he's been slack in the off season. He's also been worked out. Opposition clubs just put a similar height player on him and instruct them to run off him at every opportunity. The only time he seems to be of value is when he's a loose man across half back, ie no opponent.
Teague v Stafford was a mismatch of biblical proportions. It should never have happened, but I can't remember there being anyone else playing that day who could've taken his place. We were caught out similarly when Freo pushed Sandilands forward, we're one tall defender too few.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

No it didn't with Clarke.

But as far I know Clarke wouldn't have bitched to the opposition as to how crap Pagan was. At least Denis had the good sense to move McKernan out for two guys who probably respected him as much as Archer does.

Pagan's Paddock may have not been the best tactic with Lance, but then posters keep referring to the fact Lance was AA five seasons as a reason why we should be better than dead last. Most CHFs are capable of sprinting back into the forward 50 if they're fit and can mark overhead on the run. Denis can't be expected to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Nice formatting Woj I wish I new how to do it.

Point 1- you cant get scored against if you have the ball so why allow your opposition the chance of getting it by often bombing to a 50/50 or 2 on 1 situation- Sydney won the flag by holding the ball until an option presented and by often applying the fast break forward .

point 2 One bloody big Irishman sitting in the bench

Point 3 - Lappin and Houlihan played at opposite ends of the feild that they should have

Point 4 its a bit hard to follow instructions when you dont agree with them

point 5 - how good were simpson - carrazzo and bentick in the middle towards the end of the year - but he persisted playing kouta -campo and Scotland - stevens for entire games for most of the year - so the players were there - Go look at the farewell game ant optus and look how they performed when given the chance

point 6 - there was that game against Adelaide

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

And Sydney are a mature, skilled, quick side with with leaders across every line and Hall, O'loughlin, Davis, O'Keefe and Schneider up forward.

Does he have a defensive bone in his body?

Lappin had a poor year regardless of his position and I don't think even he could have stopped an on song Nathan Brown. They would both be playing at attacking game and Lappin is a tight checking defender.

Do the players need to be wetnursed?

I remember Stevens hitting the ground in frustration at the defeat.

The game when Campo ignores Walker at first but then misses him when he's open? Nice effort to put him under pressure and cause the matchwinning turnover.

There you have it people - asked for an answer and runs away.

Coward.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

As soft as his reasoning.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

So why did membership increase in the second year of his tenure?

Had something to do with Mark Harvey I think.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

...................

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.