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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:07 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Rod Waddell wrote:
Let’s not look at yesterday in isolation
I’m zeroing in on one player
McKay (apart from 2 early goals yesterday) has been woeful the last 2 weeks.
He promised to tear the game apart in the first few rounds but has gone back to the 6ft 10in 100 kgs looks like Tarzan but plays like Jane.
Drops marks, second efforts lame, easily out bodied in marking contests. Shivers and he’s on north of $800k

What were you watching?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:07 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Yeah yesterday in Q1 it seriously looked like he was going to tear the game to pieces on an undersized opponent. Then after that, he was just OK.

The dropped mark was a shocker but I think he'd got up looking groggy from a marking contest just before & he maybe wasn't 100% right.

Hope he smashes it against GWS

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Maybe Harry was just peeved that Pitto took his job in the Ruck :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Just askin'.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:39 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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99prelim wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
Puttung this loss on Pitto is insane. Was one of our better players.

We simply didn't take our moments and leaked some pretty ordinary goals deep in the forward line.



I'm putting this loss on the planning for this game; not Pitto

Even if you accept the Pitto for Cerra argument (doubt many will but hey, we're just supporters, not in the inner sanctum)...why on earth do we make another midfielder sub???

I'm not saying Carroll would've been the difference, but we were so short of midfield running capacity and midfield transition capacity, we could easily have made any one Fantasia, Durdin, Owies or even Ollie (out of form) sub

Walsh could've spent time on the wing and Carroll more around contests
This

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:56 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Can it be that there's some sort of error?
Bringing in Pitto for Adam Cerra
Is it really the end, not some crazy dream?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:26 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Structurally it wasn't Pitto for Cerra. We weren't down a midfielder, we were down a pressure forward. Cerra/Fogarty out, Walsh/Pitto in.
So a starting midfielder goes out and is replaced by a superior one. A pressure forward goes out and is replaced by a ruckman.

I'm not blaming Pitto or the selections for the loss. Voss said in his press conference the coaches have been discussing the right time to try the 2 rucks and it's a structure we can go forward with if we need to. Injuries require creative solutions.
There's benefits and detrimental impacts either way. Pitto comes in and he gives us support in the ruck and our clearance numbers improve. The downside is we lose flexibility, defensive integrity and forward pressure IMO. We also have ruckmen taking up a rotation for best part of three quarters of the game for tactical reasons. It's a work in progress finding the formula.

We'd averaged 19 forward 50 tackles this season, Saturday we had 11. You can talk about the ease that Adelaide moved the ball yesterday and how they hit up their forwards. That's pressure from behind that's missing. When Voss talked about us not defending as well as we could have, he's not just talking about our defenders. 18 marks inside 50 to Adelaide yet they only had 6 contested marks all over the ground for the entire day.

But IMHO, that's not the main reason we lost. As much as it contributed significantly. We lost because we didn't capitalise on our opportunities and didn't ice the game when we had the chance. 28 scoring shots to 20 with more inside 50's, you shouldn't lose the match. Especially to a winless team that lost 8 of their away matches last year!

The challenge is back to the coaches now. What do you prioritise? Can you have a balanced game (turnover/clearance/defence) with 2 rucks or if not, how do you build your structure moving forward to achieve the best model. Which of those do you value the most and how can you capitalise on those achievable phases to bring short/long term success. Voss said after the game he's not caught up in clearance numbers, we won the clearances but lost the game. So which lever does he pull?

I've made no secret that I like the 1 ruck, 2 tall forward model. Injuries will occur and IMHO, both rucks will get their share at playing significant AFL time. Plus I believe Harrys game has improved by having a stint in the ruck. But I keep an open mind and I know most other posters will do the same. Don't get sucked into the narrative of conforming to the views of the loudest or the trolls. There is no one magic model that will satisfy our needs. Be open to having a different opinion.

Speaking of trolls. I've had a bit of a running battle with a couple on this site the past 6 months. I've mostly ignored them. Just stayed away or not responded to their baiting. But if you want a laugh, go back and read the post game thread from opening round. I had the audacity to suggest we were fortunate to get over the line against Brisbane as they missed several easy shots at goals. Not that we didn't deserve the win but their inaccuracy assisted us. The trolls took great delight in mocking that viewpoint in several consecutive posts. Scoring efficiency??? I obviously didn't factor the pressure we applied and I belonged in the nervous nellies thread.

After we lost playing an additional ruckman Saturday? Well, it was obviously because we missed too many shots at goal! The scoring shots tell the tale!
"Boom" was the phrase, corroborating totally opposing views in each thread from a disciple. :lol:
It just goes to show. You don't have to expose trolls. As their posting is often based upon baiting and not conviction of viewpoint, their hypocrisy and arrogance will see them eventually expose themselves.
Looking forward to what the coaches come up with. :grin:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:32 am 
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Craig Bradley
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CK95 wrote:
Braithy wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Now that my emotions have settled I'm not too bothered we got a kick in the ass.




the loss isn't the end of the world. the team selection was pretty baffling - hopefully they all learned something. but it's the injuries that are now piling up. the fact they're soft tissue injuries it's pretty much on the training load. the guys are getting flogged and their bodies aren't holding up ... that's the area of concern that really can tear apart our season.

no gov, saad, martin, motlop, cunningham for the foreseeable future. martin is looking like missing another half a season. and all of it from soft tissue.


this has the capacity to break us.


Injuries have been terrible for years. It can't be just rotten luck



it's not (rotten luck)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:40 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blue Vain wrote:
Structurally it wasn't Pitto for Cerra. We weren't down a midfielder, we were down a pressure forward. Cerra/Fogarty out, Walsh/Pitto in.
So a starting midfielder goes out and is replaced by a superior one. A pressure forward goes out and is replaced by a ruckman.

I'm not blaming Pitto or the selections for the loss. Voss said in his press conference the coaches have been discussing the right time to try the 2 rucks and it's a structure we can go forward with if we need to. Injuries require creative solutions.
There's benefits and detrimental impacts either way. Pitto comes in and he gives us support in the ruck and our clearance numbers improve. The downside is we lose flexibility, defensive integrity and forward pressure IMO. We also have ruckmen taking up a rotation for best part of three quarters of the game for tactical reasons. It's a work in progress finding the formula.

We'd averaged 19 forward 50 tackles this season, Saturday we had 11. You can talk about the ease that Adelaide moved the ball yesterday and how they hit up their forwards. That's pressure from behind that's missing. When Voss talked about us not defending as well as we could have, he's not just talking about our defenders. 18 marks inside 50 to Adelaide yet they only had 6 contested marks all over the ground for the entire day.

But IMHO, that's not the main reason we lost. As much as it contributed significantly. We lost because we didn't capitalise on our opportunities and didn't ice the game when we had the chance. 28 scoring shots to 20 with more inside 50's, you shouldn't lose the match. Especially to a winless team that lost 8 of their away matches last year!

The challenge is back to the coaches now. What do you prioritise? Can you have a balanced game (turnover/clearance/defence) with 2 rucks or if not, how do you build your structure moving forward to achieve the best model. Which of those do you value the most and how can you capitalise on those achievable phases to bring short/long term success. Voss said after the game he's not caught up in clearance numbers, we won the clearances but lost the game. So which lever does he pull?

I've made no secret that I like the 1 ruck, 2 tall forward model. Injuries will occur and IMHO, both rucks will get their share at playing significant AFL time. Plus I believe Harrys game has improved by having a stint in the ruck. But I keep an open mind and I know most other posters will do the same. Don't get sucked into the narrative of conforming to the views of the loudest or the trolls. There is no one magic model that will satisfy our needs. Be open to having a different opinion.

Speaking of trolls. I've had a bit of a running battle with a couple on this site the past 6 months. I've mostly ignored them. Just stayed away or not responded to their baiting. But if you want a laugh, go back and read the post game thread from opening round. I had the audacity to suggest we were fortunate to get over the line against Brisbane as they missed several easy shots at goals. Not that we didn't deserve the win but their inaccuracy assisted us. The trolls took great delight in mocking that viewpoint in several consecutive posts. Scoring efficiency??? I obviously didn't factor the pressure we applied and I belonged in the nervous nellies thread.

After we lost playing an additional ruckman Saturday? Well, it was obviously because we missed too many shots at goal! The scoring shots tell the tale!
"Boom" was the phrase, corroborating totally opposing views in each thread from a disciple. :lol:
It just goes to show. You don't have to expose trolls. As their posting is often based upon baiting and not conviction of viewpoint, their hypocrisy and arrogance will see them eventually expose themselves.
Looking forward to what the coaches come up with. :grin:


Boom! :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:43 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6144
Blue Vain wrote:
Structurally it wasn't Pitto for Cerra. We weren't down a midfielder, we were down a pressure forward. Cerra/Fogarty out, Walsh/Pitto in.
So a starting midfielder goes out and is replaced by a superior one. A pressure forward goes out and is replaced by a ruckman.

I'm not blaming Pitto or the selections for the loss. Voss said in his press conference the coaches have been discussing the right time to try the 2 rucks and it's a structure we can go forward with if we need to. Injuries require creative solutions.
There's benefits and detrimental impacts either way. Pitto comes in and he gives us support in the ruck and our clearance numbers improve. The downside is we lose flexibility, defensive integrity and forward pressure IMO. We also have ruckmen taking up a rotation for best part of three quarters of the game for tactical reasons. It's a work in progress finding the formula.

We'd averaged 19 forward 50 tackles this season, Saturday we had 11. You can talk about the ease that Adelaide moved the ball yesterday and how they hit up their forwards. That's pressure from behind that's missing. When Voss talked about us not defending as well as we could have, he's not just talking about our defenders. 18 marks inside 50 to Adelaide yet they only had 6 contested marks all over the ground for the entire day.

But IMHO, that's not the main reason we lost. As much as it contributed significantly. We lost because we didn't capitalise on our opportunities and didn't ice the game when we had the chance. 28 scoring shots to 20 with more inside 50's, you shouldn't lose the match. Especially to a winless team that lost 8 of their away matches last year!

The challenge is back to the coaches now. What do you prioritise? Can you have a balanced game (turnover/clearance/defence) with 2 rucks or if not, how do you build your structure moving forward to achieve the best model. Which of those do you value the most and how can you capitalise on those achievable phases to bring short/long term success. Voss said after the game he's not caught up in clearance numbers, we won the clearances but lost the game. So which lever does he pull?

I've made no secret that I like the 1 ruck, 2 tall forward model. Injuries will occur and IMHO, both rucks will get their share at playing significant AFL time. Plus I believe Harrys game has improved by having a stint in the ruck. But I keep an open mind and I know most other posters will do the same. Don't get sucked into the narrative of conforming to the views of the loudest or the trolls. There is no one magic model that will satisfy our needs. Be open to having a different opinion.

Speaking of trolls. I've had a bit of a running battle with a couple on this site the past 6 months. I've mostly ignored them. Just stayed away or not responded to their baiting. But if you want a laugh, go back and read the post game thread from opening round. I had the audacity to suggest we were fortunate to get over the line against Brisbane as they missed several easy shots at goals. Not that we didn't deserve the win but their inaccuracy assisted us. The trolls took great delight in mocking that viewpoint in several consecutive posts. Scoring efficiency??? I obviously didn't factor the pressure we applied and I belonged in the nervous nellies thread.

After we lost playing an additional ruckman Saturday? Well, it was obviously because we missed too many shots at goal! The scoring shots tell the tale!
"Boom" was the phrase, corroborating totally opposing views in each thread from a disciple. :lol:
It just goes to show. You don't have to expose trolls. As their posting is often based upon baiting and not conviction of viewpoint, their hypocrisy and arrogance will see them eventually expose themselves.
Looking forward to what the coaches come up with. :grin:

Morning BV
Didn’t sleep well last night?
Playing Pitto was a mistake
But your right a lot of factors contributed to the loss
It will be interesting to see what style of footy awaits us in the next month


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:46 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Blue Vain wrote:
Structurally it wasn't Pitto for Cerra. We weren't down a midfielder, we were down a pressure forward. Cerra/Fogarty out, Walsh/Pitto in.
So a starting midfielder goes out and is replaced by a superior one. A pressure forward goes out and is replaced by a ruckman.

I'm not blaming Pitto or the selections for the loss. Voss said in his press conference the coaches have been discussing the right time to try the 2 rucks and it's a structure we can go forward with if we need to. Injuries require creative solutions.
There's benefits and detrimental impacts either way. Pitto comes in and he gives us support in the ruck and our clearance numbers improve. The downside is we lose flexibility, defensive integrity and forward pressure IMO. We also have ruckmen taking up a rotation for best part of three quarters of the game for tactical reasons. It's a work in progress finding the formula.

We'd averaged 19 forward 50 tackles this season, Saturday we had 11. You can talk about the ease that Adelaide moved the ball yesterday and how they hit up their forwards. That's pressure from behind that's missing. When Voss talked about us not defending as well as we could have, he's not just talking about our defenders. 18 marks inside 50 to Adelaide yet they only had 6 contested marks all over the ground for the entire day.

But IMHO, that's not the main reason we lost. As much as it contributed significantly. We lost because we didn't capitalise on our opportunities and didn't ice the game when we had the chance. 28 scoring shots to 20 with more inside 50's, you shouldn't lose the match. Especially to a winless team that lost 8 of their away matches last year!

The challenge is back to the coaches now. What do you prioritise? Can you have a balanced game (turnover/clearance/defence) with 2 rucks or if not, how do you build your structure moving forward to achieve the best model. Which of those do you value the most and how can you capitalise on those achievable phases to bring short/long term success. Voss said after the game he's not caught up in clearance numbers, we won the clearances but lost the game. So which lever does he pull?

I've made no secret that I like the 1 ruck, 2 tall forward model. Injuries will occur and IMHO, both rucks will get their share at playing significant AFL time. Plus I believe Harrys game has improved by having a stint in the ruck. But I keep an open mind and I know most other posters will do the same. Don't get sucked into the narrative of conforming to the views of the loudest or the trolls. There is no one magic model that will satisfy our needs. Be open to having a different opinion.

Speaking of trolls. I've had a bit of a running battle with a couple on this site the past 6 months. I've mostly ignored them. Just stayed away or not responded to their baiting. But if you want a laugh, go back and read the post game thread from opening round. I had the audacity to suggest we were fortunate to get over the line against Brisbane as they missed several easy shots at goals. Not that we didn't deserve the win but their inaccuracy assisted us. The trolls took great delight in mocking that viewpoint in several consecutive posts. Scoring efficiency??? I obviously didn't factor the pressure we applied and I belonged in the nervous nellies thread.

After we lost playing an additional ruckman Saturday? Well, it was obviously because we missed too many shots at goal! The scoring shots tell the tale!
"Boom" was the phrase, corroborating totally opposing views in each thread from a disciple. :lol:
It just goes to show. You don't have to expose trolls. As their posting is often based upon baiting and not conviction of viewpoint, their hypocrisy and arrogance will see them eventually expose themselves.
Looking forward to what the coaches come up with. :grin:



unfortunately it's not that. i wish it were that simple.

we're running out of players we can roll out onto the ground. it's impossible to think these next 5 games (where we will be all out, games to wire and intense etc) we won't suffer more injuries either. how many more injuries can we have before we're done for 2024? 1? 2? 4-5-6?

bcos i have this horrible feeling we're really about to - as heavs would say - enjoy the fruits of our big intense training block in pre season.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:15 am 
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Bruce Doull
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There's that, but there's also the injury crisis of 2023 that actually started our winning run, if memory serves

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:05 am 
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Bruce Doull
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CK95 wrote:
Yeah yesterday in Q1 it seriously looked like he was going to tear the game to pieces on an undersized opponent.


Boring fact: Kid who I went to the game with turned to me before the first bounce and said "Is that Jordon Butts playing on Harry? He used to go on my bus."

I'd never heard of Jordon Butts.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:13 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Haha, his dad played seconds for us

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:20 am 
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Ken Hunter
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You've never heard of Jordan Butts? You never saw the famous "Adelaide to expose Butts at senior level" headline?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:24 am 
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Bruce Doull
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They sure as hell exposed ours in the last 5 minutes...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:36 am 
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Bruce Comben

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The_Cranium wrote:
We looked so slow today. We have no line breakers without Saad. And the defence was non existent. Weiters got absolutely towelled up by Tex. Still we got ourselves out by 16 with 6 minutes to go despite our accurate kicking abandoning us. The @#$%&! up on the boundary line in their 50 have then a sniff. Then the @#$%&! up in our 50 from Owies, fmd. We finally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. I need to see Owies again but I thought he was going to waltz into an open goal. What the hell happened? Next month is going to be interesting. Can't help but feel we're following the same script as last season. Winning games early but playing shit. Then a tough run with an injury list a mile long


His field kicking is atrocious. He saves himself because he bobs up for a goal or two finding himself unmarked inside 50 because his opponent pays him no respect.

But his kicking around the ground is abhorrent. It was glaring in the elimination final against Sydney where he scuffed multiple kicks.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:40 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Quick question….

if anyone is ringing SEN today…!

last week all hell broke loose because the ball
touched someone’s hair…is anyone mentioning
the Owies (or was it Durdin) no goal…?

it was a goal…didn’t touch anyone…but it seems
it’s not that important….!

because Carlton…!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:46 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I can understand the reasoning behind Pitto, I just don't agree with it.
O'Brien is a monster ruckman. The thinking is the 2 can work him over and TDK dominates the last 1/4 with Pitto subbed.
Firstly, he gave his mids more of the ball than the 2 of ours combined.
Secondly, the risk of an injury is too high to plan on a 4th 1/4 sub.
Another runner would have been more valuable.

Looks to me that Owies tried a checkside on the run. Very dumb.

The rot started with the Kemp/Williams cock up on the boundary line. Adelaide couldn't buy a goal till that point

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:03 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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CK95 wrote:
Haha, his dad played seconds for us

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I remember him....was it Gerald Butts?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:03 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Gerard I think

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