What is it that we, as supporters, want from our players, rookies through to veterans? And what we should give in return?

Is it right to expect everything? Is it reasonable to demand nothing but perfection? Is it reasonable to cut some slack from time to time? Is it right to give something back in return? I’m not talking monetary or tangible things here, but more about mindset and when to applaud a player and when to criticise a player.

For fear of putting words into people's mouths I'll post what I want and what I'm prepared to give back.

If a player is on Carlton’s list I want them to always give their all. I want them to leave everything out on the ground once they cross that white line. I don’t want a player coming off the field thinking he had more to give. I want them to be inspired when they put on a Carlton guernsey. I want them to think of what that guernsey represents, the triumphs, the failures, the supporters, the expectation of success.

If a player disappoints then I think it is right to ask questions. It is right to demand better.

In return I think it is also right to respect the fact a listed player is just that, a listed player, and that he is given the opportunity to perform. If we want them to be inspired by our jumper, we should also respect that they have earned the right to wear that jumper. I understand that true respect and admiration is earned, and agree that it should not be handed out lightly. But I also believe there should be some give and take. I can accept that our players will not always perform at their best, they are only human after all. All of us have bad trots from time to time. But when disappointment is met I want them to fight back and to lift their game to the level we expect.

To do that they need to be given opportunity.

I believe we have a commitment to support our team, regardless of it’s make up and the flaws we may see in it. I’m not suggesting blind loyalty, just that our team is our team and they deserve the right to expect a degree of support. Yes, we must call for action when action is needed, but we must also grant our players the respect to perform for our club. If there is a player on our list we deem as a failure, a hopeless case, we MUST give that player the opportunity to prove us wrong.

For without offering that opportunity to players to learn, to improve, to right their wrongs there would be no Brett Rattens, no Bruce Doulls, no 1970 premierships. We must demand a lot from our players, but we must also grant them the respect to perform for our club.

Without respect for opportunity there can be no success.

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Beautifully put, Camel.

I agree 100%.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I will defend any player who gives his best.
Players like Ratten and Doull gave themselves every opportunity to succeed.
They had a fierce desire to be their very best.
The same as players like Sean O'Keefe, Adam Bentick, Andrew Carrazzo, Andrew Walker.
They work their arse off over the off season to prepare themselves for the coming season. They identify and address any weakness they have to give them EVERY POSSIBLE CHANCE TO SUCCEED.

They are the players who earn my respect and I will back them and support them every time.
Lance Whitnall deserves admiration for his natural ability but when it comes to application and preparation to be your best for the Carlton Football Club, he doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Bentick.

Maybe I support the battlers because as a footballer, I was one.
But I respect players who give everything to the club I love.
Anyone who gives enough to get by, I'll tolerate until someone better comes along.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

here here

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There's so much I could say...

Spoken like a true and commendable "little Aussie battler" BV.

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occidentally orientated

Sorry.. i cant support individuals just because they were lucky enough to wear the Carlton jumper....
Like BV... i support those that support the jumper , the club and everybody that makes it happen for them to be lucky enough to wear the navy blue.
Never a negative word said from my lips about blokes like Livo, Wiggo,McGrath,Franchina etc....

Because they care!!!.. they dont take my club for granted... !!!!

Too many players have been taking MY CLUB for granted lately... and it shows !!!...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I respect our great players more than the hacks purely because I admire their ability. Its easy to say these lesser likes try their hardest and we should respect that but anyone can try their hardest and fall short. It's the great players of the club like Kouta, Deisel and Kernahan I admire because of their achievements.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Yeah but talent is whats been given to you..(its a gift from the gods.. not your own doing) ability is what youve done with it.
Some players with talent have little ability.. because they have done very little with it.
Other players with less talent have shown more ability.. because they have extracted alot more out of themselves than others.

I have little regard for people that have been lucky enough to have talent but done FA with it and short changed the club.. and the supporters.

I have alot of respect for those that have done everything humanly possible to extract as much out of themselves as possible.


Why would i not respect someone who has done EVERYTHING they could over someone who has bludged?

The real admiration should go to those that gave it their all.. The Game...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

really respect is a fart in a bottle

I want the best possible carlton side.

if that means player A should go, then so he should.

Now anything a player does to help make that side better makes me happy

anything a player does to hinder it doesn't.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

It's a good topic camelboy cos it may help us better understand some of the comments people make.

Carlton is like my family. They have always been there, I am stuck with them, I don't expect anything from them, they give me joy and I love them!!!

As far as admiration is concerned...it is just natural that you will forget the battlers who could never really play and remember the champions...so am with TheGame on that one.

As far as my input is concerned. I buy my membership and proudly talk them up at any opportunity and I certainly bag Collingwood, It is my duty.

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The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

Nice post Camel.

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In Bolts we trust.......Until we don't anymore

Anyone that wears the Carlton Football Clubs jumper will be supported by me, both on and off the field. Like others, I also do become critical with some perfermances but I will never, ever abuse them. As long as their wearing the CFC guernsey that is.

hmmm.
So you unconditionally support those at the club who are well paid employees.
Yet you bag some who give huge amounts of time for free.

Maybe Collo should wear a Carlton jumper to board meetings.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

You can make an argument that Collo is wearing the jumper....and has worn it to for two premierships, ten years as CEO and now as president...so in fact Collos service to our club crosses all levels and has served greater than anyone else at the club currently... yet you talk about loyalty ???

Its comments like that , which make peoples eyes roll Surrey...

Just because somebody is at our club does not make him a sacred cow.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I support Collo, Pagan and other directors who are doing the hard yards, no problems, but I don't have to agree with everything they do and more importantly I think I should be allowed to voice my opinion without personnal abuse. I would hope most understand what I am saying here.
It's irrelevant whether or not I think Collo had a conflict of interest then Synbad is it? or Whether or not I think Pagan could have done better last year?

Some posters belong in the "JD/Joffaboy/Fireman" territory of posting, and that is what gets up me, but then again some things just never change.

Surrey... you support Lance and tthink hes a gun footballer.
when his football has been out for everybody to see.. and judge.
But you complain about people around the club whos job is far more complex and youd have no idea about the intricacies.
You also did this from day one.. before they had an opportunity to display whether they were up for it...

If you started criticising Collo today.. after giving him three years grace.. i could understand it.. youve been doing it from the moment he took the keys to the club.

In the meantime Lance has been your gun and he has been nothing more than average all the way down to poor over the last four years.

you then come up saying you support everyone at Carlton... either your blowing up smoke up peoples asses.. or you dont even have a clue what youre saying.. which is it???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad, I supported and voted for Collo (CarltonOne). Never went against him from day one, because I believed he was still a "Carlton" man even though what he did and said at the AFL went against my feelings. I was ecstatic and over joyed with his arrival. If you don't remember my posts when Collo/Pagan came aboard then mate, I can't say much else and pretty sure have posted this before also.

My feelings have changed, (maybe) towards both gentleman, from those initial months, and I am certaintly not going to say the opposite. I stand by my knowledge and understandings.

PS. Whitnall had a good year last year, wouldn't you say? Certaintly one of our better performers anyway, yet you called for his head.

I'd say Lance was average last year ... poor the year before. A good year must be one where he takes control in the forward line to help our structure. As a backman I don't think he'll ever be more than an ok contributor, but as a forward he may still surprise some of us (yes, even Synnnie!) with some sustained quality output.

Unfortunately at the moment given our list, being one of the better ones isn't enough. We need our guys to start measuring their performance and output against the standards set by the best in the competition rather than simply their team-mates.

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In WADA we trust

Won't argue with that, infact "all" our players should strive for this again.

All I want is an honest effort from the players/officials who represent the club...Respect is earned not given...putting on a uniform or wearing a jumper doesnt give you automatic credibility and being a professional footballer which is what they all are now is like any other profession.
You are open to criticism and the higher up the pecking order you go the more intense the scrutiny....everyone deserves a certain time frame to earn respect and to hone their skills but like you and me has to meet standards as they go...the sad part is the fun and enjoyment of being a footballer is probably being lost as the game become more professional and I suspect the time frame to prove yourself and gain credibility is also becoming shorter....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen