lol ... mate, you drank 5 espressos and came up with your own salary structure based on what you think our players are paid. and then you tell me to stop making up crap haha. jesus christ in a nightie on a pushbike you're funny.

we don't have cap, i know it for a fact. on afl daily they've touched on our lack of cap to spend, same as gettable. they've eluded to it on the couch as well with gary lyon. seems like all the cerebral journos and ex players know what's up with our cap. jesus ... even damien barrett mentioned it on the footy show a sunday or two ago.


you're being terribly naive about the houston situation.

naive to think houston hadn't called voss and told him he's keen to get here. naive to think at the end of season review meetings when we told kennedy, owies, young and Co they could explore other options that it wasn't in mind with clearing the salary needed to absorb houston's salary.

we needed to free up picks (for port) and to clear salary to get houston here, old bean. we needed owies, kennedy and young to leave to get to houston's salary. when we couldn't move young, we went all in for jagga. jagga was always the plan b - and as good as the kid might be, he was an ill conceived plan b, imo - bcos he isn't pushing our list into flag calculations as a rookie or 2nd or even 3rd year player, imo

we can afford to pay tdk. but it makes us even more top heavy, stymies us even more with free agents and leverage to rebuild the list and leaves even less $$ for depth and to upgrade our bottom 6.

we need to overturn our current bottom 6 for a better bottom 6. we need a winger, a ball moving HB flanker, a pacey mid with polish and 2 small forwards. and then we need a little more depth around the fringes.

by my math ... thats ship out harry, tdk and one of walsh or cripps to free up the funds to make all that possible. not impossible. and for nothing more than a gut feel; i reckon wright will have the bolas to move a few fan faves and make the tough calls.

god i hope i'm (w)right.

also ... if we're cruising with cap space. please tell me with all the free agents last summer, and this coming summer why are we not linked to any?

are you telling me bailey smith couldn't have helped us? or dan houston? or zak butters or bregman?

our name is nowhere near the list of interested clubs, bcos everyone knows we are broke.


you watch, however. we don't re-sign tdk, we trade harry and let walsh walk to cats. you watch our name be front and centre for every worthy and premium free agent.

that's not a coincidence.

I've no idea on the salary cap situation or whether it was a factor but Jagga was never the Plan B for Austin.
You're correct Braithy that Houston contacted Voss and he was very keen to come to Carlton. In fact he visited the club on the 19th of August (the day before his tribunal hearing for knocking out Rankine) and checked out the facilities. Voss was very keen to get him and understandably so.

But Houston knew before the trade period started that Austin wasn't keen and the trade was unlikely. Austin was all in for getting a top 5 pick and showed no interest in Houston.
If West Coast hadn't done the deal, who knows, Austin may have pivoted but that was always his focus. A couple of days into trade week, Houston knew his best chance was at another Victorian club.

Kennedy approached the club for a move. They were keen to keep him but he wanted more midfield time which they couldn't guarantee. So his trade wasn't tied to anything other than to give him what he wanted.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Spot on.

that's not exactly right bv. those are the soundbites out there around the draft period that all eyes were on jagga - like, when cfc made it's cute little draft room video about how it's always been jagga etc ... but that was all revisionist after the fact that we had him.

Right out of Voss's mouth when asked at xmas time up here in brissie. why no houston?

"Club can't afford him. salary cap is rooted".

i mentioned this in another thread eons ago and cru and bondi rejected it based on "a coach doesn't ever know the salary cap situation..."

kennedy never approached the club for a move. he spoke of being upset in brisbane in our last game and at his playing time in the middle. the club said if it's in the guts you want, feel free to move on. we also gave young and owies similar notice to find other clubs where playing time (or in owies case) higher wages might exist.

we needed all three to move on to afford houston. if young had have found a new club, houston would be here. 100%, as per voss.

once we couldn't move young and we had WC draft pick - plan b was jagga and plan c was a toss up of the kid north drafted and sid the kid with pick 3 if jaga was off the board.

This reminds me of that Furphy ad, talking about the girl that kicked 18 in a quarter.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

lol ... you can lead a horse to water, huh

Depends if it's still or sparkling water, or has been contaminated deliberately by "Big Pharma"

Or Big Farmer

You know you’re being highly disrespectful .

You know there’s a whole thread on Dan Houston in recruiting thread. You know we all posted there. You know we all know the facts.

No idea why you bought up the naive bit about common knowledge. I didn’t even go there. It’s not the point.

Why divert the conversation?

You don’t do any math.


With you we go around and around in circles.

Bottom line is value we get for the pay players receive. If they were all performing there would be no discussion on salary space.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I am keen on stats and spreadsheets. It makes me tick.
Because of my unequivocal passion and support (including financial) for my club since we were broke in 2002, I connected 2 passions to give me empirical data.

I have collated data since 2002. I have spreadsheets to cover Heights discrepancies, salary cap, front loading, age profiles… a lot of the stuff us tragics look at at home.

I DONT COME UP WITH NUMBERS AFTER 6 espressos. I don’t drink coffee.

Someone asked me to share my numbers. I did that. I shared my information for fellow TCers, including you Braithy, as a worksheet, to collectively work out where our salary cap is at, and not have to rely on sensationalist headlines or what mates teenage years tell. Everyone’s input is valuable. I thought between us we could work it out. As mates for the same common good.

It saddens me that you don’t see the value in that. Didn’t even look at it. And froth at me for taking the time to share the info. I find your response as distasteful and disrespectable.

I shared my numbers and explained them. I concluded that our salary cap, is not bursting at the seams, and put my ‘spin’ on what Austin may be up to. It’s a discussion piece. Open to criticism. Everyone’s input is valued. It’s the only intelligent empirical means for us outsiders to determine for ourselves whether salary cap is busting at the seams or it’s a furphy made by those with agendas, or gullible.

Instead you shit in my face, disrespecively, after I have done years of background work, w high I stated, for all of us to peruse and respond to, and shape our own conclusions, as an intelligent collective, rather than relying on the constant hype, you and media throw at us ad nauseum which are baseless one liners, or your mates were told, unofficially by Voss.

We explained to you why Voss wouldn’t know, and shouldn’t know, so give some credence for that POI. It has as much validity as any empirical evidence. Less really. But, if you don’t measure things you shouldn’t present them with the arrogance and assertiveness you deliver these 3rd hand messages and rumours, you consider facts.

It’s unfit to believe everything you hear. That’s why it’s so difficult following you. Notwithstanding the fact, you make up stuff, assume you won’t get caught out and even when you are, 2 weeks later you’re peddling same old crap, thinking that your agenda will stick.

I’m not after your agenda or anyone else’s. I don’t know 100% what’s wrong. I’m just trying to find out for myself, with my blue brethren, and I’m interested in exploring reasons.

Hype and hysteria has seen many coaches sacked when it shouldn’t have been the case, because nothing changed.

Now you want to trade Harry, Walsh, let TDK walk because you believe it’s a salary cap squeeze. and you want Voss out bc of his game plan, which when it suits your agenda you will admire 2023, and when it doesn’t, 2023 run was just luck till we got found out. Neither are facts. Your opinions are not dogma.

If you read your last post, there’s so many contradictions in what you say, in almost every paragraph. You even mention a media source. I don’t need to go there. It’s a real disgrace TBH. You’re more keen attacking those with food for thought, than questioning your own position. Others question you. Maybe there’s a reason. Get off the Trump juice. No one knows exactly what’s happened. It’s a conundrum for everyone.

I’m sort of sorry I bothered with that list, but maybe some appreciated the effort, in fact I know they did. The posters who like List Management and numbers did, and I will bump it to show I have added fat in case you thought I was weighting it with forward loading. I thought the numbers and desire to measure, made TC intellectually richer, than just rumour mongering.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Bump

I’ve added a lot of fat to the numbers below

Draftees are paid between 90-105k plus games
I’ve added games even if they don’t play any.
Rookies are 85k
Haven’t included bonus for BnF, AA, Coleman etc




Don’t worry about last line. That is an assumption. But give one an idea that we can save whatever we don’t spend above 95% SC within a 5 year period. Max SC is 105% where Saints are now.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

More than appreciated " Chesty Bondi " . Keep it goin" .

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All my dangerous friends

Yes, very much appreciated Bondi.....

appreciated BB - luv ya work

Imagine if Bondi did drink coffee!

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I just want my old club back ... (edit) maybe I have!

I have no idea what the players are on and don't pay much attention to that stuff these days but Lachie Fogarty is in his fifth year at the club, has never been a rookie and has played 60 games for us and 83 overall.

He originally signed a three year deal and then signed a two year extension last year which takes him to the end of 2026.

In what world is he only on $200k a season?

The average AFL contract is now almost $500k and he signed a new contract twelve months ago.

I find it hard to believe there are too many 83 game players on $200k.

Not trying to give you shit here Bondi but what's the evidence for the $200k figure?

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Maybe it correlates with the metres gained from his kicks.

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I just want my old club back ... (edit) maybe I have!

okay okay. so you guys do the math, do you? from numbers you guess over. and you guys have your dan houston thread where you "discussed" everything. including the "facts"

and then there's our very own coach talking among friends at xmas time where we share many mutual friends. and everything he says flies in the face of what you guys "thought" you know, and the numbers you guys cooked up with no actual evidence of what guys are getting paid. so your egos are hurt bcos you were wrong, i get it.

but rather than face you're wrong. no. lets shoot the messenger. haha. unreal.

for example pittonet is on 400k per season, not the 350k bondi says in his spreadsheet.

so for every player if bondi is 25-75k out with. what about if he's 100 or 200k out with other players? ... where does that leave his final cap? i'll tell you, nowhere near where it really is.


i'm kinda done here.

I will explain, but is that the only anomaly you found?

Gut feel what do you think he is paid?

This is the point of the exercise. Then we work on it.

You’d be shocked at some of the salaries paid.
I’ve given a breakdown of the number of players in salary brackets.
700 players/ 120 on less than $200

Fog was a late first round pick on $95k at Geelong.
He played 6 games and wasn’t going to go much further at Cats.

We signed him in for around $200k for 3 years.
He doubled his salary coming to Carlton
We were the only club interested in him. He told me that in Covid year. Long story.

His contract expired last year.
What were his options?
Try find another club or accept a 2 year extension at…..cheap as chips
Which other team would take him? Why?

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue