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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 3:34 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25495
Location: Bondi Beach
Braithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

You know you’re being highly disrespectful .

You know there’s a whole thread on Dan Houston in recruiting thread. You know we all posted there. You know we all know the facts.

No idea why you bought up the naive bit about common knowledge. I didn’t even go there. It’s not the point.

Why divert the conversation?

You don’t do any math.


With you we go around and around in circles.

Bottom line is value we get for the pay players receive. If they were all performing there would be no discussion on salary space.



okay okay. so you guys do the math, do you? from numbers you guess over. and you guys have your dan houston thread where you "discussed" everything. including the "facts"

and then there's our very own coach talking among friends at xmas time where we share many mutual friends. and everything he says flies in the face of what you guys "thought" you know, and the numbers you guys cooked up with no actual evidence of what guys are getting paid. so your egos are hurt bcos you were wrong, i get it.

but rather than face you're wrong. no. lets shoot the messenger. haha. unreal.

for example pittonet is on 400k per season, not the 350k bondi says in his spreadsheet.

so for every player if bondi is 25-75k out with. what about if he's 100 or 200k out with other players? ... where does that leave his final cap? i'll tell you, nowhere near where it really is.


i'm kinda done here.


You’re attacking me again.

I don’t doubt what you’ve told me in private. Why do you even think that? Are you paranoid?
I like hearing about peoples opinions and feel privileged to hear private conversations your mates had with Vossy.
I don’t dismiss anything, but I dismiss everything. Do you understand that old saying? then I discuss, then I hear opinions, then I contemplate, sometimes I don’t conclude, but May harbour suspicion or surprise.

You present a conversation as inside information from Austin. It’s not. It’s a conversation from a coach who wanted Houston. We gave you a few reasons why his view may not be right. That’s all. Why do you take it so personally? Why can’t you see the virtue in what others tell you?

Can’t you see it’s best for the club that Vossy thinks it’s the salary cap constraint that forced the rejection of a player Vossy bought to the club? And all the other reasons?

I didn’t say I was right. Stop spooking. I said from the outset it’s a workbook based on information I have gathered over the years. It’s open to discussion.

What do you do? Pick Pitto, and I can share the story of his first and second contract he signed with Carlton, the second when he was injured with a PCL and TDK about to take the mantle. His contract was stretched to 4 years, like L. Young, and Cerra to keep the annual pay down. Security of tenure. Ask a banker what that means to them.

People get shocked we contracted Pitto and L. Young for 4 years but when they realise how cheap they came it becomes a good deal. It’s important to know before bagging a player or decision.

Then what do you do, just to discredit me, not the workbook, you generalise, and say I deduct 50k per contact x 44 players implying I’m 2.2k out. Do you understand what you are saying? You are saying we are 1.3M over the salary cap.

Between your comment and my workbook do you see who is closer to the pin?

Why?

Can we just discuss things without taking it personal. And you have to accept why you may doubt some of the things you hear and you have admitted, sometimes you don’t recall the facts and shoot. You admit it. Please mate. Be reasonable.

It’s a discussion. No one is shooting the messenger. You need to understand to comprehend the doubts one presents, and acknowledge the validity or not, and why.

You just shoot off, shooting at anyone and everyone if if don’t agree with you. Maybe it’s the way you deliver your “Facts”. Maybe they are opinions. Heard of Chinese whispers?

I’m aware my numbers might not be correct, as I have presented them, but I’ve avoided Front lading etc I have on my private sheets. It’s an exercise.

Just point out where it’s wrong and what you think. We can discuss it.

Im not going to respond to every single player. It’s too hard. I will address with my evidence at a late date.

What this worksheet does is makes people aware of ball park numbers that make up a list and the rules around salary cap. Food For Thought.

_________________
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Last edited by bondiblue on Thu Jul 03, 2025 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 3:36 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 18730
Location: threeohfivethree
I didn’t have a long look at the figures Bondi. That one just stood out for a fifth year player to me.

As I said I have no idea what he’s paid but if you want a “gut feel”, for whatever that’s worth, then I’d say he’s easily in the $250-300k range.

The other problem I see is that you state he was on $95k at Geelong but if that’s correct it would be a base salary without match payments. He played 15 games in his first season so that would significantly inflate that figure.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 3:45 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25495
Location: Bondi Beach
GWS wrote:
I didn’t have a long look at the figures Bondi. That one just stood out for a fifth year player to me.

As I said I have no idea what he’s paid but if you want a “gut feel”, for whatever that’s worth, then I’d say he’s easily in the $250-300k range.

The other problem I see is that you state he was on $95k at Geelong but if that’s correct it would be a base salary without match payments. He played 15 games in his first season so that would significantly inflate that figure.


Thanks for honest response.

You are correct re games played at Geelong.

Only 6 in his last year and 2 the previous year. That’s worth $24k plus $8k. He played 15 in his first year then fell out of favour.

At Carlton he’s played 13 this year, 15, 12, 3. He was on his way to being delisted last year as an injury prone player, till his fortunes changed when he was picked to play a defensive small forward role. He would not be a trade target for that elsewhere. Carlton were not threatened by the approaches of other teams. If he was, he’d be trade bait.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 4:05 pm 
Offline
John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9958
Location: Australia
Braithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

You know you’re being highly disrespectful .

You know there’s a whole thread on Dan Houston in recruiting thread. You know we all posted there. You know we all know the facts.

No idea why you bought up the naive bit about common knowledge. I didn’t even go there. It’s not the point.

Why divert the conversation?

You don’t do any math.


With you we go around and around in circles.

Bottom line is value we get for the pay players receive. If they were all performing there would be no discussion on salary space.



okay okay. so you guys do the math, do you? from numbers you guess over. and you guys have your dan houston thread where you "discussed" everything. including the "facts"

and then there's our very own coach talking among friends at xmas time where we share many mutual friends. and everything he says flies in the face of what you guys "thought" you know, and the numbers you guys cooked up with no actual evidence of what guys are getting paid. so your egos are hurt bcos you were wrong, i get it.

but rather than face you're wrong. no. lets shoot the messenger. haha. unreal.

for example pittonet is on 400k per season, not the 350k bondi says in his spreadsheet.

so for every player if bondi is 25-75k out with. what about if he's 100 or 200k out with other players? ... where does that leave his final cap? i'll tell you, nowhere near where it really is.


i'm kinda done here.


How do you know what Voss said was the truth? Maybe he made up some bullshit because a bunch of idiots kept badgering him to say something? Maybe he had some agenda to say what he said. Just because you hear someone for the club say something you can't guarantee it's true. You'd be vary naive if you did.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2025
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 4:08 pm 
Offline
John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9958
Location: Australia
bondiblue wrote:
Braithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:

You know you’re being highly disrespectful .

You know there’s a whole thread on Dan Houston in recruiting thread. You know we all posted there. You know we all know the facts.

No idea why you bought up the naive bit about common knowledge. I didn’t even go there. It’s not the point.

Why divert the conversation?

You don’t do any math.


With you we go around and around in circles.

Bottom line is value we get for the pay players receive. If they were all performing there would be no discussion on salary space.



okay okay. so you guys do the math, do you? from numbers you guess over. and you guys have your dan houston thread where you "discussed" everything. including the "facts"

and then there's our very own coach talking among friends at xmas time where we share many mutual friends. and everything he says flies in the face of what you guys "thought" you know, and the numbers you guys cooked up with no actual evidence of what guys are getting paid. so your egos are hurt bcos you were wrong, i get it.

but rather than face you're wrong. no. lets shoot the messenger. haha. unreal.

for example pittonet is on 400k per season, not the 350k bondi says in his spreadsheet.

so for every player if bondi is 25-75k out with. what about if he's 100 or 200k out with other players? ... where does that leave his final cap? i'll tell you, nowhere near where it really is.


i'm kinda done here.


You’re attacking me again.

I don’t doubt what you’ve told me in private. Why do you even think that? Are you paranoid?
I like hearing about peoples opinions and feel privileged to hear private conversations your mates had with Vossy.
I don’t dismiss anything, but I dismiss everything. Do you understand that old saying? then I discuss, then I hear opinions, then I contemplate, sometimes I don’t conclude, but May harbour suspicion or surprise.

You present a conversation as inside information from Austin. It’s not. It’s a conversation from a coach who wanted Houston. We gave you a few reasons why his view may not be right. That’s all. Why do you take it so personally? Why can’t you see the virtue in what others tell you?

Can’t you see it’s best for the club that Vossy thinks it’s the salary cap constraint that forced the rejection of a player Vossy bought to the club? And all the other reasons?

I didn’t say I was right. Stop spooking. I said from the outset it’s a workbook based on information I have gathered over the years. It’s open to discussion.

What do you do? Pick Pitto, and I can share the story of his first and second contract he signed with Carlton, the second when he was injured with a PCL and TDK about to take the mantle. His contract was stretched to 4 years, like L. Young, and Cerra to keep the annual pay down. Security of tenure. Ask a banker what that means to them.

People get shocked we contracted Pitto and L. Young for 4 years but when they realise how cheap they came it becomes a good deal. It’s important to know before bagging a player or decision.

Then what do you do, just to discredit me, not the workbook, you generalise, and say I deduct 50k per contact x 44 players implying I’m 2.2k out. Do you understand what you are saying? You are saying we are 1.3M over the salary cap.

Between your comment and my workbook do you see who is closer to the pin?

Why?

Can we just discuss things without taking it personal. And you have to accept why you may doubt some of the things you hear and you have admitted, sometimes you don’t recall the facts and shoot. You admit it. Please mate. Be reasonable.

It’s a discussion. No one is shooting the messenger. You need to understand to comprehend the doubts one presents, and acknowledge the validity or not, and why.

You just shoot off, shooting at anyone and everyone if if don’t agree with you. Maybe it’s the way you deliver your “Facts”. Maybe they are opinions. Heard of Chinese whispers?

I’m aware my numbers might not be correct, as I have presented them, but I’ve avoided Front lading etc I have on my private sheets. It’s an exercise.

Just point out where it’s wrong and what you think. We can discuss it.

Im not going to respond to every single player. It’s too hard. I will address with my evidence at a late date.

What this worksheet does is makes people aware of ball park numbers that make up a list and the rules around salary cap. Food For Thought.


I'd back Bondi over Brathy to have a better idea of what Pittonet is on any day of the year.


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