Mickstar wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Fast forward 10 years since the start of SOS' 66 game rebuild for sustained success, anyone can admit, he, not the Board, not Andrew Russell, not Bolton, not Teague, but he missed so many players with his Draft selections. In fact, far worse than I posted above, because I didn't count Walsh, pick 1, a few other mids, let alone the small forwards SOS drafted: Polson, De Bois, Gallucci, Honey, Gibbons, Owies, Ramsay......
Give the next coach a more balanced list and we might get success.
After SOS bought 58 players to the club via Trade and Draft, we have only 11 players left on our list, and only 10 next year when TDK turns his back on us, maybe 9 if SOS can get our first rounder, Kemp for a 3rd rounder.
Cripps and Doc were at Carlton before the SOS chainsaw massacre.
No one can ignore the fact this was not good List Management, that was our foundation for sustained success is 11 from 58 players hand picked by SOS. I will never defend SOS record. Complete failure. Got a bit lucky to have 2 first rounders and Curnow running away from cops before Draft.
Lets get the bottom of our biggest issues that seem to be repeating itself. Its the List that's the problem. Austin hasn't landed us a really huge win from the Draft either imo, other than Smith. I also like the prospects O'Farrell, Cowan, Hollands, Cincotta (rookie) and O'Keefe after 5 fkn years. That's it: 6 players. That's another failed List Manager imo.
But by all means shield SOS and Austin and blame the coach. Lets see if that works.
We need players who can improve our on our 2025 Preseason Best 23.
I can see after 10 years of recruiting 58 players by SOS, and 31 players by Austin, we need to replace TDK, and still improve on 6 Best 23 players AND add a couple more for to improve our depth too. That is doable. If not in one year (and it can if we have done the work behind the scenes with 17 players coming out of contract in 2025), or it may take a 2nd Trade period to nail our needs on the List.
Players like Gov, Haynes, Pitto, Acres, Kemp, Boyd, Young and Young should be our depth in 2026, to help the kids, and not put too much strain on their old bodies before they are delisted at the end of 2026 and 2027 and replaced by better players. I know Haynes will probably deserve to be our 3rd Tall Defender in 2026, but at 34yo next year, he should be depth, but until we find better, he's a keeper.
So , the recruiter is more important than the Coach . Yep , if he don't get it right and provide the cattle then any Coach is pushing cow droppings uphill . Think you might be onto something Bondi . Good detailed post .
Exactly Mick.
I'm not onto anything new Mick. I choose not to dismiss or replace facts with agenda.
Its old news that keeps getting worse and more obvious as each year passes by.
Our first half in 2025 was worse for injury than 2024.
We all accept we were robbed of talent when we needed it most in 2024.
The fkn media only accepted that fact after the season finished because their Agenda was Headlines and throwing darts at Carlton is the path of least resistance for that.
Wake up people. Stop listening to Media, because at the end of the year, the numbers will show Effendopes had been hit hardest with injury, followed by Carlton, followed by StKilda, but for now its not a story, and the gullible follow the media's lead.
Prior to end of last year's delistings and moving on players like Marchbank, Martin, Cuningham, Kennedy and Owies, we had 16 players on the List of the 58 SOS selected.
I cannot understand the SOS defenders. Not one bit. WE should all call a spade a spade. He is a total failure, because he delivered and executed a 66 game rebuild.
ie after his first 3 years 2015-2018, the build was complete.....
, and he felt sorely done by that we honored the next 2 years after that rebuild to to top up. Thank god he was shown the door.
I love the player Stephen Silvagni, but I hate the Carlton hater, Stephen Silvagni. Arrogant stuck up son of a hard working immigrant family. Entitled prik.
He was lucky in his first year , 2015, having the No 1 pick, plus 3 more first rounders plus a Father Son pick. From that 2015 draft, we still have pick 1 Weitering, pick 10 McKay, pick 12, Curnow and FS Silvagni on our list. WE have nothing left from his drafting and Trading from 2016. Let me repeat, Nothing. Yet we like to call the Wayne Hughes and Shane Rogers our wasted years and failures. They have nothing on SOS.
Take away those easy wins SOS had in 2015, and we have 6 from 55 players left on our list.
SOS was a disaster at Carlton and at GWS with his 66 game rebuilds.
His GWS build gave him access to 6 times the quality picks he had at Carlton....compensation picks aplenty, and learnings from the Suns failure with the compensation picks, and Marketing dollars towards salaries:
After a 66 game build/ rebuild how did SOS teams go?
GWS: 2015 11th, 2016 4th, 2017 4th, 2018 7th, 2019 6th, 2020 10th, 2021 7th......have yet to win a Flag after starting rebuild in 2012.
Carlton 2019 16th, 2020, 11th, 2021 13th, 2022 9th, 2023 5th, 2024 8th, 2025 14th? ....have yet to make top 4 in the H&A under 3 different coaches.
To make it worse, some believe a coach would fix our problems with the unbalanced list. A list Austin thought was 2nd best in the AFL after discarding 3 injury players and getting Jagga Smith.
No coach, let alone Vossy, can coach, or will ever coach any of the 47 failed SOS picks at Carlton. They are wasted opportunities he had to make Carlton Great again.
We all have our opinions, and keogh blames it all on The Board (all of them since 2002), braithy blames it all on Voss, some blame our failure on 2 rucks, but for me its simply:
No 1 Failure: SOS' List. False sense of security, cut too hard led to a losing culture where picks were worth more to him than Good players.
No 2 Failure: Austin has failed to turn over the list and top up to be a Top 4 Team. He closed our window.
No 3 Failure: Austin's 5 years lot focus to give us 23 kids, of which most wont make the Grade, and they wont be AFL footballers for another 2-5 years
No 4 Failure: Austin and SOS chose to carry injury prone players on our list, and we saw the injury list continue to burden our charter for Top 4, let alone Finals.
Re Point 4, and major failure, may also have been caused from bad advice from S & G, and Doctors. I suspect its a bit of that. But even worse than that is the List Manger did not want failure of his choices to burden their reputation for an eye for talent.
What's proves the above to be the case with SOS was his targeting of injury prone players he selected at GWS, and you can see he's still happy to pick up his failures at Carlton to "hopefully" make good on StKilda's list: Dow, Carroll, Stocker... surprised he let NM get Fisher before he had a chance: robably because he was focussed on Kemp.
for a 3rd rounder. Total fwit.
Then, after all the above, some expect Vossy to produce a miracle with anything from 8 to 20 missing due to injury, when we haven't topped up our list to cover these players with depth to cover injury. I think we can all admit we were a bit hard on Vossy in the 2nd half od the year when we had up to 20 missing. Yeah? Nah?
For those people who think injuries don't hinder success, Carlton have not lost one game with less than 8 out injured, but have lost every game we had 8 or more injured. We started the year with 13 out and lost the first 5 games, with one ruck. Can't blame the 2 rucks, but all that ignoring injury does, is allow those with an Agenda to point the finger at Voss.
Rot started with SOS imo, and we are paying for it now, and things got worse when Austin focussed on building his own team for the future and took his eye off the prize: a Flag whilst our window is open. The opposite to what Pies did. Pies gave their coach players he needed to win a flag.
List Managers who get it wrong are very dangerous. No we are suffering for it.
All I am saying, is give Voss a chance. (John Lennon?)
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..... speaking of Kindergarten, I said before season started Austin has collated a Kindergarten List and could field a whole team of kids under 23yo. That's the another issue, the coach haters wont acknowledge. Always finger pointing for a scapegoat.
I, too, had a chance to review the timeline of that 3-goal win, but I failed to notice those injuries, which indeed precipitated a three-goal swing against and match-losing momentum. 
), then started the slide back down.