Hate to say it but the scene was set with that dreadful weiters kick out on the full in the first minute. Just no idea what he was doing there.

Eerily similar game to Rd 2 against them, margin in the 20s but felt like 60.

There is nothing like a Hawks game to show how sub standard our ball use & movement are.

They toyed with us

Sent from my moto g54 5G using Tapatalk

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#DonTheStash

The way they zig zag with such speed is a sight to behold.

Hawfs played with their food for the last three quarters.

BV has it nailed on the culture. Goes back further but.

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The only way for some people to understand is for them to be on the receiving end

Left wing moralists
In self serving denial
They shit me no end

RIP Charlie Kirk (was/were)

just watched the first quarter. i didnt think we were that bad when we were in our forwaed line, we were just too congested. the pressure was there, we just needed our forwards to stop ball hunting and spread their defence. and acres not to be a spud

it was once it came out of our 50 that we were shit and gave them far too much space. this is down to our mids complete lack of accountability and leg speed. given our captain is our best mid, and he was so far away from any opponent, he may have well been in the mcc bar, is it any wonder the rest dont defend? our defence also just kick and hope, it seems like they just want no avoid any and all responsibility and just get the ball out of their area, but it then just comes back in

cripps is turning into a very selfish player again, not a leader of men. his body will no longer let him take whole team on and barge through them, he just seems to be unable to realise this. whether voss allows this or cripps ignores this will be pure conjecture, either way, it sets an extremely poor example for the rest of the team

doc going on a bit too long, cripps playing selfishly, weiters just trying to kick the stuffing out of the ball, our leaders are not leading. what hope do the kids have???

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my last one was rubbish

The club is greater than any individual
It starts at the very top at board level
If it’s toxic with individuals that flows down eventually to the playing group

We have some good kids coming through
The leadership group needs a complete overall
A couple have to go in my opinion
I would trade Cripps for that reason

Seeing the players happy in the rooms for individual Docherty
Agree 100%

Last night cemented for me that a number of senior players are the problem and need to go, or their influence needs to be negated.

I'm guessing there's a few cliques that need to be broken up.

Only positive for me was HOF - he will be a player.

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'The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule it'
H.L. Mencken

Score source

Kick in
Hawthorn 1.0.6
Carlton 1.1.7

Stoppage
Hawthorn 3.3.21
Carlton 4.3.27

Turnover
Hawthorn 9.4.58
Carlton 4.3.27

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

I can’t get on board with this. Voss took over from Teague when the club was in a very similar position. In no way should the playing group have been trusted. Voss should have been evaluating them in his first year and setting standards and holding them to account. The tough conversations he’s saying are taking place now should have been had in his first year.

The culture has sucked for 20 years and Voss had his chance to change it and failed. It’s time to to move on.

I will say that in my opinion I hold Lloyd more directly responsible for the clubs current predicament. There have been so many poor decisions on his watch and how he has remained in that position for 7 odd years is unfathomable. The board owns that. But one of those crap decisions was handing the coaching reigns to Voss.

I've said it before but we have become St Kilda.

I love Doc, what a guy, what a player, what a story of resilience.

But we are focused on the individual now first because we have no team.

We talk about Colemans, about Brownlows. That's St Kilda stuff. We have nothing else to talk about so it becomes self fulfilling.

It's such a broken club at the 'elite team standards' level.

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Congratulations CK95

Men against boys last night

If we have a tackling coach, he needs to be sacked. Do we actually train to herd players rather than tackle, or are we just inept. We take possession of the ball and the Hawks are all over us, they do and we stand back?

If we do try tackle, I assume as we dont train for contact, they are broken far too easily.

Who ever is in charge of that... get it sorted.

Not happy with how soft we are

If last night doesn’t prove Voss has lost the players then you live in la la land.
Like many have said before he had his chance and continuously failed to set standards.
What a disgraceful showing last night was.

It’s v interesting that so many of us, all with the same outcome in mind, see different causes.

What I see is this, although I’m not sure where the fault truly lies. For example, while some kicking woes are due to poor individual skills, some iMO are more due to poor game plan putting too much pressure on the kicker to hit very narrow targets or due to too much pressure being let through from others not protecting the ball carrier. In other clubs, whose bottom 6are also average, they don’t have as many or as consistent skill errors. I don’t believe this is only down to the players themselves, although some of it may be.

But what I do see is:

1) Not enough movement ahead of the ball providing options or clearing space for others
2) More often than not, our forward line seems very clogged (and static). More often than not, our opponents forward line seems very open (and dynamic). THIS IS THE ONE THAT CONFOUNDS ME THE MOST!
3) More often than not, we bomb it into the forward line often a shallow entry even when there are overlap players available who could direct it deeper and to a leading player. (Sometimes, there are just no dynamic options ahead of the ball so the kicker just has to bomb it).
4) It seems like our preferred clearance approach is to bomb it fast if we get the ball from clearance. Whereas, Hawthorn preferred to look for a close handball out of the stoppage to start a running chain or enable a more directed kick forward. It’s as if Sam Mitchell says they can kick straight from stoppage but only if they are able to eyeball a clear or leading player. Whereas we just get ball, kick ball without looking.
5) Too often, our kicks and handballs miss their targets. Or we train to deliver the ball to where the player was rather than where they’re going. Included in this point are the handballs that go to the targets’ ankles or kicks that reach their target on the half volley… infuriating!
6) Too often, we don’t seem to stick effective tackles or continue to apply pressure once an opponent gets past us. To be fair, I think this is a more recent development where earlier in the year I think our pressure was much better. Maybe players have checked out (which is not a great excuse and another poor indicator but I guess if a player is prepared to check out now, they must be prepared to wear the consequences when we go through the list post-season).
7) We are WAY too mild mannered. Still. Whether it’s joking around after we get smashed or not doing much of the little annoying unsociable things other hungrier teams do.

I understand that times have changed but this team doesn’t play the way Voss played and it doesn’t seem like Voss is as uncompromising as a coach as he was as a player (hopefully he is behind closed doors but it’s not coming out on game day).

It was interesting to hear Voss call out amongst our deficiencies that we kick it down the line too much. So that is obviously not his preferred way for us to move the ball. So, why do we do it so much? The answer to this question could be the key to addressing a lot of our on-field problems. Hopefully, GW knows the answer and we will see his response in the coming weeks or months.

There are some sides that can get away with bombing the ball forward a bit. Richmond did in their prime. You need small forwards who know how to create havoc with a messy entry, & we just don't have that.

Our small forwards seriously don't know what they're doing once the ball spills

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#DonTheStash

Yes , tackling is so limp wristed I agree Chris . Easily fixed . Go get Dom Brew from Werribee coz he's the best tackler AFL/VFL in the game . In fact I would get him to come over as a player and Captain of our VFL side just to lead by example . The young kids coming in next year would hugely benefit being led by this bloke . A tough non compromising character . He has had a few cage fights and is no Nancy boy . Someone the kids can look up to and follow .

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All my dangerous friends

I dont know him, but we need his type.

Him, a few tackling bags and a 'bring you mouthguard to training' attitude

We need to more effective in this part of our game. Scores from turnover from us were the difference last night, it would nice if we could cause a few more with tackles that stick

G

That sums up the game to me. They applied the pressure. The pick a team that can apply pressure as their starting point knowing that scoring of the back of pressure is easy. If we had that pressure we would all of a sudden notice that we dont have as bigger issue with our inside 50s.
Playing with land of giants really stuffs up the pressure.
I thought we fought it out after a dreadful first 40mins. Unlucky not to get a 50 that could have triggered a late run at a win.

We dont really play to win. Infact it looked like the game of sport got in the way of a great family day for the Carlton community the club creates.

Hawks were thinking about how they could stop Docherty from getting a goal on his send off. They knew that was a c#&t move but figured if they win a GF nobody would care.

Pros:

White's best game. O'Farrell showed plenty.
Weiters, Pittonet (until he was subbed off) and Charlie's first half.
We didn't get slaughtered by their small forwards.
We won territory, clearances and free kicks.

Cons:

Another timid performance. We outsmiled the opposition. They outtackled us, outshoved us, outhurt us.
Uncompetitive once the ball's out in space as usual. With Walsh and Cottrell out, Oli's the only one who finds the ball in space. Again our leading midfielders struggled to get to 20 disposals (Hewett 25, Cerra 19, Cripps 18).
Forward entries.
Again we lost the accuracy battle (even though it was much better than usual).
Cripps, Cerra, TDK, Harry, Fogarty, Motlop.