Absolutely they should be and Crippa, Harry and Fog should be embarrassed but ....

And momentum killers.

I'm with you Bondi.......if you can't hit targets, miss goals, fumble the ball, drop marks, can't lay a tackle, then you have the spotlight directly on you, that is not coaching, that is basic AFL skills.

The only forwards I trust to kick a goal when it is their turn, are Hayward, Ainsworth and Byrne...............that says a lot about our forward line.
Even McLovin and Pitto are kicking them, I'm half sold on them but I still have some scars.

In the Richmond game they had 15 marks inside 50 to our 7.
We have a new forward line coach, a new midfield coach, a new stoppages and structure coach and a new leadership coach and we still can't hit targets inside F50.
At some point in time commonsense has to prevail and you have to ask, can our current players deliver.
Jagga is a shining example of this, he's already becoming one of, if not our best midfielders in his second game.

A lot of questions, but I'll admit it is still early.

Assuming Haynes Newman Saad Cerra Wilson Evans are all fit for selection.

IN: Haynes Derksen Newman Cerra Saad Boyd
OUT: Dean Cowan O'Keefe Chesser Fogarty Ollie

Melbourne have a Giant 207cm ruckman in Gawn. He starts the play for them.
Only Pitto can go with him...and hurt him. Pitto plays a very physical game and can only play 60% these days.
I prefer Young to give the chop out vs Gawn for 10 mins per quarter.

Melbourne have Petty as their tallest KP forward or back, so we dont really need a big KPD, we need more mobile talls, and Derksen haynes Kemp and Gov give us that.

B: Boyd Weitering Haynes
HB: Florent Derksen Saad ......Newman

R: Pittonet Walsh Smith...........Cerra Lord Hewett
C: Carroll Cripps E.Hollands

HF: Hayward McKay Ainsworth
F: Williams McGovern Kemp......Young

Want more speed and better kicking from backline.

Williams and Ainsworth mix it up with mids.

Was 50-50 bringing back Acres on the wing for Elijah, but Acres hasnt played many minutes this preseason.

Byrne isn't running out VFL games let alone AFL, so need to build him up his emgine before he comes into the team.
If he was a 3 qtr player I'm sure he would have been selected ahead of Fogarty, and spend 30 minutes on the bench.

Dropped Cowan for his constant kicking long bombs to a pack rather than running the ball out using his pace; his asset

I love Ollie's pace and stamina but he is another who needs to take his kicking more serious.
Message is you are an AFL footballer, but you must concentrate more on your kicking. Work on that in the VFL.

Actually its a toss up for me between Lord and Ollie because Lord was bombing it in 2nd half too, as he tired? and Hewett is ahead of Lord as an inside mid.
I'll give the nod to a midfielder. If Williams spent more time as a midfielder, I'd pick a goal kicker in Evans ahead of Ollie and Lord for this game.

Chesser may have been fatigued from a lot of running, hence looked a bit slow a couple times as his opponent closed down space in the chase, but went with Elijah in the hope he finally shakes the cobwebs and shows some consistency with his field kicking, and kicks a goal or two. I don't expect goals from Chesser.

Go Blues

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

....but if Cripps cant kick straight and is a pure inside mid, then he should be waxing on the bench imo. I'm finding it too difficult to squeeze him elsewhere. Lord and Hewett are also inside mids and a tad more nimble. If Crippa is fading in the 2nd halves and we are losing contested ball, then he should be shown the bench. I'm sure that'll spark him up...or he plays 2nd ruck/ inside mid/ bench....IMO

.... our second half fade outs with contested ball is in its 3rd year now. That has to change. Must shine the torch on all inside mids, or just torch them. I don't blame game plan or Voss for 2nd half fade outs and losing contested ball. I see something between players ears fading out. If they really want the ball, they are good enough to get ball, if not.....door / bench is over there

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I bet me dropping Ollie came as a shock to you.
I didnt think he was as bad as he's been in the first 2 games.
Almost too casual

I think its an indictment we are relying on 29yo battered Pitto and 32yo hasbeen Gov to be our goalkickers.

I'm sure everyone at TC could see what we could see at the ground, players with ball ignoring the 45 degree leads and choosing to bomb it instead. not in the first, but long bombs started creeping in dueng the 2nd quarter and increased as the game went on. In the last Qtr, it looked like we were happy to give it back to them in the hop that enough airtime hang would kill time. Ridiculous.

Energy creates energy, and energy perpetuated momentum...as for momentum killers.....Acres, Ollie, Kemp, Cuppa, Fog, Motlop, Harry...we keep one....Harry.

And players like Weitering, Elijah and Lord have to hit targets on the full to enable a player to mark and keep possession. Elementary stuff. Hopefully players will remember the ridicule in the preseason of their skills.

Come on Baggers. You're better than that, and better than the Dees....fkn CLICK wouldja

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

This idea of Crippa playing second ruck is intriguing.

I just don't know if it's a bigger risk of him getting injured or not?

Having a centre bounce lineup of Crippa, Hewett/Lord, Jagga and then rotating between Walsh/Cerra/Williams/Lij/Carroll? would be so much more dynamic.

It still wouldn't be anywhere near the fastest midfield in footy, but it'd be a hell of a lot nimbler than what we have now.

The other option is having him rest down back. Could he take the 2nd or 3rd best tall forward, at least sometimes, depending on the matchup? Rather than put the pressure on him to kick goals, he might be better suited to stopping them?

Instead of trying to turn him into Bont, make him the Anti-Bont.

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The Artist Formerly Known As BamBam7

Like you, trying to find a spot for him.

I agree Crippa aint the man for CB.
Gone are the days where a short ruck would suffice at the CB.
Would have to play mids one on one, and Cripps would have to clobber a TDK to stop him attacking the losoe ball.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Other teams have the bye. Annoying they haven't organised a praccy much, but I guess they have their reasons

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#DonTheStash

I did see that Bondi.
Don't get me wrong, I really want all our kids to be stars, but Ollie is not helping himself as the more 'senior' kid with his poor kicking style and resulting poor disposals by foot.
And aside from him not sticking more of his tackles the rest of his game is great, although a little slow for my liking.
It really is up to him to sort this out, he should be the player that owns his position outright now and the team can rely on him playing his role.
But I still feel his best position is in the back pocket, IMO he has played his best football there to date.

I agree, maybe pre-training we need to show them the video.
Then again, we could just compile the fumbles, missed targets, missed angles, missed tackles, missed shots on goals each week and show it to them with Benny Hill music, repeated for at least a half a game at this stage.
Not sure how positive of a culture that would be though.
But something has to change and it has to be at player level, they need to take ownership.

Coach should take charge. Needs to drop on of Cripps, Lord or Hewett and rotate the other 2 off the bench. Stand up and deliver or F#$% off and let someone else coach this team.

Our game plan is the issue. Players can't compete a contested style for 4 quarters when others have plenty of petrol in the tank by playing wide and loose. We need to wake up and join the party. Make the changes needed to the team and game plan and move forward for FFS.

Watching the 1st half the Hawthorn v Sydney game and see how open the game is played. 11 goals and we aren't even into the 2nd half the 2nd quarter.
Our guys would have wasted all the petrol by now closing down the game or trying too and then either team will have a field day in the second half against us.
It's no wonder we drop our heads as well. The players know they are done and have nothing left compared to the opposition. It's not that hard to follow.

Have him play ruck at the centre bounce and not compete, so it becomes 4 midfielders to three sharking the ball.

I think there is too much focus on our contested game. It’s over stated and a cop out. Every team plays a contested brand. The game is a contest. The loose ball is a contest. Possession can only happy when a contest is won.

It’s the other parts of the game that seem to be the issue, and yes it’s game plan, in particular set up and zoning. Our set up has changed since preseason when we were seen to complete, excuse me, contest for 4 quarters.

Imo looking to blame our 2nd half in one word is reason the word is contest. In both games, we lost contest after contest straight after a 20 minute rest in the sheds. It’s something else. It’s more a failure to commit to compete and taking foot off the peddle. Maybe they expect the next person to take the initiative, then you will find we have 3 ar the contest such is our desire to win it, and no one on the outside.

The word Trust comes to mind. Trust in themselves and trust in their team mate to win ball and trust team mates will honour leads.

The word skills comes to mind as we fail to hit targets, and kick straight at goal. The objective of the game.

Imo our issues are a bit of game set up and a bit between the ears of players. Fitness or will to contest is not the issue. That’s why I think it just may click….hoping sooner than later.

If it doesn’t click then this supporter false dawn is a case of counting our chickens and change for progress is inevitable come years end.

All we are aiming to do this year is make the 8, or 10 with the addition of Hayward, Ainsworth, Florent and Dean. So are 18 other teams.

Furthermore we hope to unearth a few new talents and cement a few more players for 2027 and beyond: Smith, Carroll, Cowan, Wilson, Byrne, Moir Hollands Hollands Lord OKeefe….maybe Ison Lucas and Ben….

Knowing we wil add Walker and have salary cap space for 2 ready made top end players…….with or without Voss.

It’s a reasonably good plan post TDK SOS Charlie, but let’s work out which players can deliver skills trust contest and competitiveness for 4 quarters….and 3 will do for Byrne and a 5 man bench.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Sydney have only played 50 minutes of run and gun in 3 games. Champagne footy. This is what brings them undone in the Final dance…..lost last 4 GFs at 80 points. When the game, like last night gets decided in the trenches, you need more than run and gun.

Not convinced it’s all about petrol tickets with our boys. Kemp misses set shots 5 minutes into a game, or quarter. Fog misses from 15 front of goal. Cripps kicks with the yips. Momentum killers. Worst set shot in the league, but he continues to want the ball rather than give the ball…..he’s not a good kick short or long. He’s purely a contested bull who dishes out the ball. Voss should use him for that strength, not his weaknesses.

We have the wrong set up, or it needs a bit of tweaking imo, or we need to improve our list and or coach.

After only 2 games it’s a bit hard to be dogmatic about our game let alone that of the other 17 teams. Let’s see where everyone is at after 7-10 games and reflect on the fixture to that stage too.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Exactly. Worth a try. Gotta get the best out of him for the benefit of the team.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Going back to the points about King/Mitchell implementing immediately noticeable change to their game plans, I’d add in McRae as well who memorably backed his team to keep attacking even though it cost them early on because “we want to play like winners”. By the end of that season, he was proven correct.
And yes, Mitchell’s Hawks finished well down the ladder. However, he famously gutted his list. The discussion at the time was whether he had cut too deep. But he was also insistent on his game plan.

It should be noted that Voss also imposed a new game plan focused on contest and clearance. And it was also clearly visible in his first year. The problem is that the game has moved since then and we haven’t adjusted enough, and also we have never been able to generate enough ‘good’ shots from our forward entries. Related to that, and maybe also to us running out of puff, is that after half time we stop providing multiple, repeat leads to give options to the ball carrier.
I’m not sure whether the forwards stop leading because our kickers just keep bombing it long, or whether our kickers keep bombing it long because there are no leads…

In any event, this season is going to be a series of rolling tests for Voss, any of which could trigger his demise.
The next test is where we are at after the next 2 matches. If we win both, he survives until the next test.
If we win one, the ice is getting thinner.
If we lose both, his papers will be stamped.

That’s just it. No one knows after 2 games.

Honouring leads is a non negotiable. We did all preseason, then stopped after half time both games, and those leads were there to be honoured….chose to increase our bombs as game progressed.

Agree with your last paragraph. Losses to developing teams will bring them undone in heat.

What I do wish deep down is to see Voss make a left field decision and throw a player forward who has a lot of enthusiasm and a lot to play for….Derksen. I believe he will lead hard, and he will play like his career depends on his success. I think the move is inevitable. He’s a good mark, mobile, quick and a straight kick at goal.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

There's your problem.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

You don't think he's a good straight kick for goal? or , Carlton curse will get him too?

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I remember Matty Kreuzer kicked 11 straight then got the yips.

I recall McKay's early games in the AFL and felt we finally got a KPF whose kick for goal as good as Ross Ditchburn

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue