The voice of reason in all this "throw the baby out with the bath water" madness currently going on.

Well said mikkey.

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Winston Churchill

Agro, buddy. Long time no see. We need to have a beer during the season and put needles into a doll with the word "Spew" written on it.

A lot of us were saying this some time and getting ridiculed for it .

It has been noticable that the players have shown no sign of improvement and its all right to say their a young list and they need time but every side has a young list these days . if your not on top of your game by 22-23 your heading for the scrap heap and with some players its even earlier.

The sole reason our players are not developing is because the great man got rid of all the players that could have sheltered them and taught them . Pagan was so determined to protect his record that he thought he could do it by bringing in a handful of try hards and get rid of the guys that didn't agree with his coaching .

surely Hickmont - ratten - allan - murphy - beaumont and mckay could have done the job of morrell- bowyer - bannister and co and at the same time use there experience to teach the youngsters .

Its to late now this desire to change the club and its culture has left us with a bunch of kids with no one ( except whitnal ) to show them the way.

Kouta cant do it because he is not a footballer he is and Athelete who had a few good years . He is used to running laps on his own not reving up his fellow players like most kids learn from the under 7's

Now Synbad your now saying we need a change and the coach is like a rudderless ship . Imagine what it would be like if you were a player being coached by it . You would have no desire or want to play at all - this is maybe why there was the great revolt round 22 2003 - the players simple have had enough.

Coaches have their moments and Pagan has had his much the same way Jezza did - when he came back I know for a fact that the players just couldn't wear him and his style of play because after 10 years things have changed

Pagan needs to stand back allow someone else to take over and just slowly fade off into the distance - Just like Parkin did

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Ah, the sole reason.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

OK...elaborate!!

You can’t simply call Denis a “witchâ€

Haven't heard any signs of discontent from what I've heard about training. But after one loss in a meaningless practice match in 31 deg it's suddenly started?

What's JD not doing right?

Just his occasional lack of control & consistancy
But....Good......that's positive you care.

Number one there are.Which explains performances.

Number 2 those kids are miles behind any other block of kids from other clubs.

You cant call any of them starlets... all you can say is they have potential.


T Bird had potential.. Sporn had potential.

For one reason or another their potential is not being extracted at the moment...

Tell me im wrong...???

There is no Jarrod Rivers or Brad Miller... there is no McGuire (who is 6 months younger than T Bird by the way..
Waite isnt much younger than Riewoldt or Kosi.. and hes close to Luke Balls age.
Look at Snyder.. or just look at other clubs at their 20/21 year olds...

Miles behind... as a block.!!!
I dont mind them all taking different times to improve but we dont have ANYONE who has played very good consistent footy for us at a young age. and the ages are getting older.

Livos gone... Sponr is gone.. Wiggo is gone.. at 22/23.

Whats going to happen to the next group?

Why didnt they step up???

Why arent our kids stepping up to a higher level???

Surely there is something wrong....!!!

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Fair enough....that explains it very nicely. I'll go and grab a rope.



100% agree



You're not wrong, although, T Bird is still one of our brighter lights; I worry about his current form, but I'm confident he'll come back. Sporny just never stayed on the track long enough to build confidence. Ditto for Livvo.



Pick 1 & 2 that were ready to play are unfair examples, and Jarad played ressies for his first year, followed by stress fractures. I still hold great hopes for him.



The 2000 draft certainly didn't turn out well for us, for whatever reasons; but I don't think you can plonk that on Denis' charge sheet. The next batch of youngsters have only had a season or less, apart from Simmo, JD & AW, in the system. I'm willing to wait a bit longer for them to come on.



Yep...we're LAST in the competition.... but that doesn't mean we've got the worst coach in the AFL. He didn't inherit a list that was full of 1st round picks and ready made players.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

(Glad the Boss is paying for this....I type at 5 words per minute)