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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:06 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

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Does anyone know if the AFL are actually going to take over the lease or will just pay for the maintenance costs and upgrade of training facilities?
If they are taking over the lease it seems their pledge of help may have an alterior motive, which is to have control of the ground.
Will interstate teams eventually play their Melbourne away games there? and what happens with the Social Club? Is it still going to exist or is it being wrapped up by the Club because of the losses? Will the AFL put in their own bar and make money from it if they start playing games there.
Seems like the Club has finally stopped kicking and has been beaten into submission.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:01 pm 
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Garry Crane

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:) My info is that the Social Club will merge with the footy club as there is no need for the Social Club to remain as ground managers as most of the Social Club revenue was derived from games played at the ground. Now that this is not the case and as it currently costs the club a reported $1.8 million to maintain the ground, the AFL will agree to take over the maintanance of the ground, hence taking over the lease. The AFL will sub lease the ground to Carlton so that we remain the number 1 tennant at Princess Park.

Sounds like a good idea to me........


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Italian Blue wrote:
:) My info is that the Social Club will merge with the footy club as there is no need for the Social Club to remain as ground managers as most of the Social Club revenue was derived from games played at the ground. Now that this is not the case and as it currently costs the club a reported $1.8 million to maintain the ground, the AFL will agree to take over the maintanance of the ground, hence taking over the lease. The AFL will sub lease the ground to Carlton so that we remain the number 1 tennant at Princess Park.

Sounds like a good idea to me........


As someone else said, beware of AFL men bearing gifts.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:15 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Italian Blue wrote:
:) My info is that the Social Club will merge with the footy club as there is no need for the Social Club to remain as ground managers as most of the Social Club revenue was derived from games played at the ground. Now that this is not the case and as it currently costs the club a reported $1.8 million to maintain the ground, the AFL will agree to take over the maintanance of the ground, hence taking over the lease. The AFL will sub lease the ground to Carlton so that we remain the number 1 tennant at Princess Park.

Sounds like a good idea to me........


Will the 1.8 million be itemised for us or do we have to take their word the curator is on more than Kouta?
Secondly what are the details of the lease back???Whats the rent going to be?
Thirdly...why do we have to believe its good for us when we dont know the exact details???
Fourthly does this make us a 17.5 per year million turn over club?
Fifthly.. How come we have so many corporate boxes empty and only just under 18,000 members?

Wouldnt Fifthly be important because if the board can do what boards are meant to do and can bring in more money to the club we have to bend over less to the AFL???

This is a board that has performed very poorly in selling itself to corporates.

Maybe its just not cut out for the corporate world and is more comfortable bending over to the AFL???

Is that what youre trying to tell us ???

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:32 am 
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Adrian Gallagher

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Synbad wrote:

Will the 1.8 million be itemised for us or do we have to take their word the curator is on more than Kouta?
Secondly what are the details of the lease back???Whats the rent going to be?
Thirdly...why do we have to believe its good for us when we dont know the exact details???
Fourthly does this make us a 17.5 per year million turn over club?
Fifthly.. How come we have so many corporate boxes empty and only just under 18,000 members?

Wouldnt Fifthly be important because if we can bring in more money to the club we have to bend over less to the AFL???


Good points. I would really like to know how it costs 1.8 million for maintenance of the ground, did they rip up the ground and put in new grass? must of been expensive seeds. :roll:
The details of the lease, if this goes ahead will definitely be important. The future of the club depends on this. We could get shafted and have to merge or relocate at the end of it if we aren't careful.
What are the new board candidates position on this issue? I'm starting to become really distrustful of Collins and his dealings with the AFL. IMO he is either incompetent or has had some sort of plan with the AFL.
IMO the best solution is if we could keep the lease of PP and get the AFL and council to help with the upgrading of facilities. Even try to get the VFL involved. Let them base their HQ there also if they are willing to put some money into it. PP is still a valuable asset, which is why the AFL is willing to take the lease off our hands.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:52 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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So what does PP cost to run?

The SC financials are not very detailed – only adhering to minimum legal requirements.

Here is a breakdown of the 2005 expenses with 2004 in brackets ():

Borrowing Cost expenses: 297,927 (187,465)
Depreciation & amortisation expenses: 237,927 (609,614)
Ground operations expenses: 622,325 (463,726)
Admin expenses: 1,925,190 (1,536,430)
Other operating expenses: 2,939,472 (3,546,350)

So I don’t know where the numbers been thrown around are exactly coming from. Some points of interest:

I expect the increase in operations expenses could come from the last game at Optus with all the additional stuff they did – including the large screens etc.
I wonder what admin expenses are and why they increased by 400 K.

The only number (except for finance cost) broken down in the notes is the “other operating expenses:â€


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:06 am 
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Bruce Doull
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There is no way that club has a 2 million ground operating cost with no games there

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:08 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Synbad wrote:
There is no way that club has a 2 million ground operating cost with no games there


i hate to say conspiracy, but I smell a rat!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:46 am 
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Rod Ashman
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I wrote this elsewhere but the more you contemplate it, well let's say its a bit sus...

Quote:
The more I think about the maintenance costs of PP the more I struggle to come to terms with the reasoning for our departure from there. Don't get me wrong, I was all for our departure due to TV coverage, sponsorship and other financial reasons but one of the key platforms for the argument to leave PP was that the club could avoid huge sums of money for upkeep and upgrades and we'd be better off foregoing this expense.

Now to have Collo and co. reveal that we are still incurring $1.8M a year, even after we have left is a bit hard to swallow. If we were always going to incur those expenses it may have been better keeping a number of games there every year (3-4 perhaps). This would justify the upkeep, would keep the ground as a revenue stream and given the low break-even point at every game, it would more than likely be a profitable outing every time. It would also allow the social club to be more viable.

Granted I don't know what the maintenance costs were whilst we were still playing at the ground but $1.8M seems unreasonably high to me. Does this amount contain costs perhaps associated with our farewell game last year? Will this figure reduce substantially now that absolutely NO games are played there? I mean the facilities there are still in fantastic nick and even with Geelong's new stand PP still craps all over that stadium!

I am just a little sceptical of the AFL's real intentions once we have them as landlord. It worries me a little. We have lost a lot of clout and I can see us getting pushed around by these pricks and made to do things against all our wishes.

Most clubs still have a training venue and it would be interesting to find out how much it costs these clubs for maintaining their facilities. I don't trust Collo as well to reveal the true nature of things. Given his ability to crunch numbers he may have loaded up the maintenance expense to support a push to offload PP from our control (for whatever reason?)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:00 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Think it is all very suss. Can't help but thinking Collo and AD had all this planned about 3 years ago.... surely the AFL "taking over" the running costs of PP should have been a done deal before we went to TD/MCG... by taking over I mean CFC (and maybe one other) using it as a base on a long term lease arrangement (stacked in our favour of course :wink: )

I'd love to see the cash flow projections for CFC for the next 5 years - that would fill in some gaps about what has and what hasn't already been decided by the powers that be....

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:12 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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There is no way that club has a 2 million ground operating cost with no games there

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:13 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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There is no way that club has a 2 million ground operating cost with no games there

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:16 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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There is no way that club has a 2 million ground operating cost with no games there

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:16 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Synbad wrote:
Italian Blue wrote:
:) My info is that the Social Club will merge with the footy club as there is no need for the Social Club to remain as ground managers as most of the Social Club revenue was derived from games played at the ground. Now that this is not the case and as it currently costs the club a reported $1.8 million to maintain the ground, the AFL will agree to take over the maintanance of the ground, hence taking over the lease. The AFL will sub lease the ground to Carlton so that we remain the number 1 tennant at Princess Park.

Sounds like a good idea to me........


Will the 1.8 million be itemised for us or do we have to take their word the curator is on more than Kouta?


Groundskeeper Willy should get out of Springfield.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:40 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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OK Synbad, we heard you the first time!!! :roll: :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:49 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Don't know any of the detail, but I expect a large part of the debt servicing is also linked to the "cost of running the ground"...as it is the ground that has created the debt.

Combine with the cost of running the ground (annual day to day outgoings) and the admininistration associated with all parts of the business and you will find the "cost" of the ground is high...

BUT BEWARE....as getting rid of the "ground" sometimes does not actually get rid of a lot of these expenses....there are just fewer business activities across which these are claimed (admin being a case in point!)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:28 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Synbad wrote:
Fifthly.. How come we have so many corporate boxes empty and only just under 18,000 members?


Hmmm ... I wonder if we've tried selling the Australian Wheat Board a corporate box. They seem like our sort of organisation cause they won't remember how bad our financial situation is, that we were wooden spoonners last season, or even that we were smashed by Port last weekend. I bet Trevor Flugge would even put the money in a brief case for us, rather than a brown paper bag. :lol:

... of course there would be some "trucking fees" associated with getting their catering from the kitchen up to the box , but I've got a funny feeling they won't ask any questions about those.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:07 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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God that Mark Robinson is a biased Sheedy loving flower!

Click here for the Herald Sun article Freebie would arouse curiosity

Quote:
He said no club had offered concerns about any possible financial handout from the distribution scheme.

"On the other side of the equation, I've had at least three or four clubs who have indicated we should do whatever we can to help Carlton," Demetriou said.


But this article says different. :? :garthp:

The Australian:Blue murder
Quote:
The bail-out proposal has already been opposed by several rival Melbourne clubs.

Clubs labelled the proposal outrageous and estimated, with inflation, the real cost to the competition would be close to $100m.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:16 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Nightcrawler, i think you WILL find that a change of direction will lead to more spnsorship dollars.
this will be proven .. regardless of where we will be at on the ladder.

and our biggest killer wight now is cash flow not the debt.. young couples have almost that size mortgages these days... :P

The question remains that with that negative shortfall in cashflow which brings us to our knees and allows us to be ridiculed.. How can we have three guys in Australias top 100 richest who are prepared to associate themselves, their names and their companies to that kind of rabble and not help out???( with the cash flow if they cant bring in sponsors./

Is this a plan by the board for something or are these people really that tight????

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:54 pm 
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Garry Crane

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:shock: You surprise me Synbad, if you think that what we do on the field doesn't impact on things off the field, well give me some of that stuff that you are smoking as I want to be dellusional too....


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