From todays Age:

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2006/03/31/1143441341521.html





Our revenue was $ 19 million... less then Bulldogs and North....







The Club needs to improve as fast as posible or we are "dead meat". More new talent on the Board would be a first step.

Essendons sponsorship alone was....



But we have a full complimant of sponsors though....

Plus we had a record membership.. and the turn over was 20 odd mill...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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$14 million = 2/3 of $21 million

very good.....

maths is a strong point i take it???

I think were dealing in round figures.

Not all three other Vic clubs are on exactly the same turnover... but 3 were mentioned....

Its meant to be used as a guide....

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Maybe you should analyse Essendon*'s revenue.

Please don't shoot me down on this but I am just throwing a question out there for others ideas. Just something I was chatting about recently with some mates

Would there be any merit in perhaps considering a merger with perhaps the Roos at this point in time, taking into account our financial struggles and forecasted poor on-field results for the next couple of years or so which may lead to further turmoil.

I think most of us are coming to the realisation that Carlton is no longer a true big club in this town and sadly has perhaps joined the 2nd tier of Melbourne clubs in terms of financial strength and clout. We seem to have joined the mire that contains clubs like the dees, dogs, roos, hawks.

The chasm that exists between the pies and scum and the rest is widening all the time.

I love my club and want it to be successful on and off the field but when you face the reality I find it hard to see how it will ever recover from the depths it has reached in the last few years. Big Jack was probably a bit of a visionary in his pursuit of a merger through the nineties when we were actually flying because he probably realised that as a Melbourne based club the hunt for corporate, sponsorship and membership dollars was only going to get worse in an already saturated market.

If faced with the three options, if worse comes to worse, in that we relocate, fold or merge and remain a Melbourne based outfit I would take the merge. Now I know this is an extreme prediction and hopefully one that will never come to fruition but it doesn't hurt to discuss and consider.

If such a venture could harness a vast majority of the members and keep them on board and strengthen the brand to appeal to the corporate and sponnsorship markets then it might be a winner.

Unfortunately I think the Melbourne cake for all these potential revenue streams isn't going to grow much but will simply be divided in different sized slices. And for some that slice is growing and for others it seems to shrinking all the time.

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C'mon Blueboys!

The difference between us and the other struggeling Melbourne clubs is the far larger supporter base we still have (even so it is in danger at the "kids level). In this regard we are equal second in Melbourne with Essendon*.

The issue is to get into a situation where we actually a) again perform at a reasonable level to attract frustrated supporters and make kids proud to wear the jumper and b) manage the club in a way that actually takes advantage of the size of the supporter base.

The Roos and Dogs have a problem that can not be solved - their "base" in Melbourne (and interstate) is too small. Ours is big enough.

So it is not all Doom and Gloom IF we can get out of debt and improve all aspects of the club. The Roos are still endangered even if the make 8 prelims in 10 years.

So I do not believ in a merger. I do believe we need some really good people with innovaytive ideas to take us out of trouble. I dont want to use the Pies as an example - but when Eddie took over they were inquite some trouble financially and had falling membership etc.

No merger !

Look lets not get hasty here, lets see how the club is sitting when we can get back a bit of on-field respectability. I'm sure a young successful team could bring in the larger sponsorship money ie St.Kilda. But thats the key getting a quality team on the field IMHO.

My only concern is that if we don’t improve on field for another 3 years let’s say, how much will that compound our situation financially. It seems almost certain that we will get nowhere near 30K members for this year and take a hit there with lost revenue. If this hastens lower corporate and sponsorship dollars in turn then we will really struggle.

The key is on field success. We need to return to being competitive and start winning again. The problem is that children/early teen age bracket where we are probably losing ground on. The numbers are there and will probably save us but as we are seeing this year with lower membership numbers, people run out of patience eventually.

I was just thinking that if a merger can give us a significant boost and turn us into the leading Melbourne club then it would be worth a bit of thought (nothing more) than any long term mediocrity and perhaps doom.

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C'mon Blueboys!

BTW - the AFL is very happy with 16 teams - they just want them spread more nationally. Mergers is not longer the agenda - relocation is. And whatever the AFL wants the AFL gets... we should have learned this by now. We just have to make sure we are strong enough in a couple of yeras to avoid being shipped north.

Spot on Mikkey and the Afl want to increase their profil in NSW and Qld.That means 2 Melbourne based clubs relocating into these states.This is a certainty.Because of our past indiscretions and apathy in thinking we will be alright we wont merge or relocate we are now in real trouble.

Look at Hawthorn.They are safe for now.They get heaps for travelling to Launceston and look at the rent they pay at Waverley.

I feel we are [REDACTED] well and truly in our current states unless we do something different.This is not reactionary pessimistic thinking.This is financial rational thinking.Maybe that is why we went to Newcastle pre season.

Not so sure. They have been living on the money from the Waverley sale. So long term they might have problems. But they have Jegg, he is good both with controlling cost and market the club.

We will be right. We just need a better performing board.

Since 2002 we have struggled down the bottom (and bottom half) of the ladder, yet we have been able to muster record memberships. The message here is that memeberships of high volumes have been achieved recently and it can continue to be achieved and could be improved. The fact is is that it is not an impossible task, and doesn't and hasn't solely relied on success on the field. Fact.

From my recollection, over the last month the focus from our supporters has been a lack of creative or methodical marketing, communication and negative media for our dismal membership numbers. As for the team performance the main theme agreed by most supporters is that we have a very oung team that will take a couple of years to mature; and improvement will happen, and that we are on the right track with youth.

So why is this crap about relocation, merging and doom being discussed, when we have no fact stating Carlton will be forced to do anything of the sort from the AFL?

As far as I'm concerned it's you guys on this thread that are feeding the doom and negativity to the doomsdayers, and round 1 hasn't even started; it's a disgrace.

Why don't you wait until there is some hard evidence that Carlton is forced into a corner. Demetriou stated the other night that a healthy Carlton is healthy for the AFL; that's all he said about Carlton....leave the reading between the lines to the media. After all it is you people who state that they feed us enough negative crap as it is...or are you actually reading and believing everything that institution (the media; shit anti Carlton journos) who you despise and disagree in your 'other' posts.

I'm not shooting you down marciblue or anyone, but it sounds like you're losing hope before we look at the possibilities to take on board the lessons of Essendon* and Collingwood; let alone implementing them.

Focus on the footy, and areas where the club can improve, and leave the scaremongering to the negative ones. April Fool is over, and Carlton don't play a game on Friday 13th.

I thought it was Lee's inclusion to the board that will see some creativity with our marketing.

If the Hawks, Kangas, Bulldogs, and Demons have survived when actually confronted with the reality and not rumour of relocation/ merger, they fought, stuck together, came out of the shadows and survived. Imagine what Carltonians will do if forced into a corner. Much bigger numbers and and a history worth protecting.

Get real....If any body, AFL or whoever wants to fight Carlton, I'll be standing next to you and anyone who cares, fighting all the way. We will survive, and we will have our renaissance. This is all the public, media and AFL commission need to hear from us.

Stop tormenting yourselves.

Go Blues.

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Fair point bondiblue. Perhaps it is an overly pessimistic insinuation but one that was mentioned in talking. Simply due to the fact that John Elliot was so active in his pursuit of a merger through a successful period at the club that maybe it might have been more applicable given our current plight.

My opinion on our record membership numbers in recent years was that a lot of supporters were motivated to sign up in response to the heavy-handed penalties and as a show of solidarity to the club. However, now that we seem to be approaching our fifth year of mediocrity a lot of supporters have simply had enough. Whether it be poor team performance, lack of hope, continual bad new stories, whatever, they are not responding for 2006 as in previous years.

I don’t agree with them but I understand. I know guys who have been members for over a decade and they simply don’t want to know about the upcoming season and are very pessimistic about the whole situation. Most are AFL members so they re-sign simply because if they don’t they lose their full membership but they do so with a touch of reluctance. I only use this as an example because if the few that I know represent a reasonable cross-section of the supporter base then there must be a lot of pessimism amongst Carlton people ATM.

Given that the AFL would prefer relocation maybe a merger discussion isn’t appropriate but I don’t think that we can consider the club in a position where it can simply dismiss not being open-minded about anything given the circumstances it finds itself in.

However, we are always only a few good wins away from turning a lot of the pessimism and negativity around. And that’s the beauty of footy.

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C'mon Blueboys!

Eliott was just playing "funny buggers". He wanted (more precisely just threatened) to take-over North Melbourne not merge with them. We would have still been the Carlton Blues, but just had an extra 40 players and a few extra supporters.

Maybe when this was 1st looked at it in the early nineties, but not when JE and Casey were in discussion about this in 1999. I think it would've been more a case of a legitimate merge more than anything.

Overall, I think the importance of some improvement and hope in our on field performance is crucial and will be an important stimulus to recovery in other areas

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C'mon Blueboys!

I appreciate your honorable Carlton response Marci.

You state that..."Perhaps it is an overly pessimistic insinuation but one that was mentioned in talking". This is a precisely what I'm pointing out...it was mentioned "in talking" amongst blues supporters, and it turns into hysteria. That's not healthy for Carlton FC or its supporters, and especially those debating on whether they are to become Carlton Members in 2006 and beyond. The message to me is that 'the party is over"

In reading the opening quotes of this thread, there's no mention from the Age that there will be a Carlton relocation, it's just the Age journo looking for a story related to sponsorships, Demetrious comments re Gold Coast, and leaving the association of club names and the theme to the readers. In othet words let the reader give cred to the article. Win for the journo!

Having read the report, who has suggested that every team may have to play at least one game on the Gold Coast? No one. That's also a possibility. There's more than one way to skin a cat...and how many people can Carrara or Southport hold? 40,000? No...it holds less than Princes Park. So the possibility of a multi team venue is a possibility. There are too many possibilties around to take any of them seriously, especially before round 1, 2006.

You also menetion that in your opinion " on our record membership numbers in recent years was that a lot of supporters were motivated to sign up in response to the heavy-handed penalties and as a show of solidarity to the club". but you seem to have forgotten to remember the successful pro active marketing campaigning that took place to win these supporters in the first place. Such a campaign has gone amiss in 2006.

Furthermore you seem to neglect the position that TC ers reflect on time and time again, about this year's under resourced marketing team, no database software for them to take advantage of (who are the members, who has re signed...), slow response times sending out memberships, a non active Marketing Director...the real problem is that the club has done f*** all about pro active marketing in 2006. Therefore, whilst you may believe that because of [Carlton's] "mediocrity... a lot of supporters have simply had enough", I don't believe for one minute this is the whole story, it may be but a small part, as I use recent history to support this point.

And just because [you]..."know guys who have been members for over a decade and they simply don’t want to know about the upcoming season and are very pessimistic about the whole situation"... that doesn't suggest to me that the pessimism they may be feeling comes from its supporters and not the club they historically have associated with. It doesn't say to me that a positive slant or positive promotion of the club, or from it's supporters can't change their feelings. They've been sold doom and gloom by the media, from the Board, and now on this thread more from TCers.

"...if the few that I know represent a reasonable cross-section of the supporter base then there must be a lot of pessimism amongst Carlton people ATM....", I'm not sure of any market research conducted on behalf of CFC has happened, but I'm sure that amongst pessimism being a factor for low membership, the Social Club issue, the move to Telstra, and the lack of positive spin from its Board & its supporters are other reasons IMO.

IMO, I believe that some Carlton fans have forgotten how to enjoy themselves, win or lose, and this contributes to the mood that deters people from wanting to associate with unhappy, dispirited people. I know for a fact, that even as a party animal, I don't go to parties where people going to be there are not fun to be around.

It's easier to look at things in a more positive light, and not necassarily with rose cloured glasees, because a gloomy outlook is a downward spiral for mine. I'm just trying to help you from looking in that direction, because it's a waste of time and good energy.

Watch out here come the blues.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

This point of the article seems to have been over looked

Might want to send this to COI

The other great disparity is in stadium deals: those clubs that control their stadiums are thousands of dollars, if not millions, better off. Geelong, for example, gets match day returns $200,000 greater from a 23,000 crowd at Skilled Stadium as it does from 35,000 attending a "home" game at Telstra Dome.


Hmmm I wonder what Jack would think of that

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Catering contracts maybe? Not sure there. Geelong aren't paying off their stand either.

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