I hope the club just focuses on rebuilding itself and leaves the bitching to us in here.
In my opinion this club is portrayed as a club that bitches too much .. and the media love it!!!

for the first time in 100 years they can sink the boots in.. and we give them way too much info to help them along...

If its not money.. its about the picks.. if its not the picks its about the contracts... if its not about the contracts we conjure something up.

I repeat!!!.. leave the bitching to us.. and get fair dinkum about sponsors and the list... thats when you silence the critics.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

CFC actually has a long history of infighting.

What do you think I have been doing over the past 4 years!!!

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

There really hasn't been any in-fighting at the club since 1983 when Elliott took over as President. He didn't really allow it.

In fighting can really be healthy if it is done in the correct forum, eg the Harris/Jezza bust up in 1979/80, we ended up winning back to back flags in 81/82.

The period of political stability with Elliott was a silent cancer that nearly destroyed the club.

You could argue that when the Board changed over prior to Black Friday 2002, there was not really enough infighting which resulted in a Board which was to compliant and didnt really want to rock the boat and create too much change.

A Board with maybe a few more factions on it might have created a better dynamic and catalyst for the type of progressive change that we really needed.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

yeah, I was pointing it out for those younger fans who may not know.

You may well be right about that.

AGRO, I agree that fighting can be healthy if its done in the right forum BUT...

When Rice came into Festival Hall that night he won in '79, I started to see a Carlton that was no longer Blue Collar or the peoples club, as it had all the distasteful dressings of American razzamatazz campaigning. The Rice faction fight phase in our history cost us a premiership, and two Carlton greats in Jezza and Harris. We were about to become the Man U of Aussie Rules and more; before Man u strutted their stuff. We should have won 4 in a row with the cattle we had at our disposal....so I do not consider that fight as fruitful or healthy. It cost us.

I'll never forgive that bloke Rice or forget that night. I was only 19. He didn't give us the 81 81 flags, he just took them to have his name up in lights and fulfill his ego. Where has he been all this time, where is he now, when we need all the help we can get?

Make sound choices based on deliverables, not hype!!

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Gotta agree with Bondi here. What the dual flags showed us was how we [REDACTED] up 1980 BIGTIME because of egos!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

It was a very difficult time and 20/20 hindsight is a magnificent thing - but as great a player and captain Jezza was - he was the "right person at the right time" to resurrect us as Coach from that pitiful period with Ian Stewart in 78/79, and dont forget even the President George Harris only saw him as an option of the last resort at the time - for chrisake he even canvassed Neil Roberts (who was only a World of Sport Commentator at the time) before he approached Jezza to take over.

He was no super coach and whilst he may have won us the 80 flag (although dont forget the Tigers were steriod enhanced that year) he may not have been the man to lead us through the early to mid 80s.

Parkin I think (again using 20/20 hindsight) was a better long term option than Jezza.

About 10 years later in 1989 - Elliott tried to pull the same rabbit out of the hat and appointed Jezza as Coach, but the magic was clearly gone by that stage and Jezza was past it as a Coach.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

I'll never forget one of the first games Jezza was in charge of when he returned in 1989. We had just lost to Brisbane at PP and he openly stated in the media he would only play guys who loved the jumper and were prepared to fight and defend it. The game against Sydney at the SCG turned into an absolute brawl and Rhys-Jones got his jaw broken by Diesel. The good old days ...

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In WADA we trust

That sort of stuff was OK up until the late 70s and early 80s - but it had had its day by the time Jezza took over the second time. It worked for a little while as the players older players were still in awe of Jezza, but the younger ones didn't really know who he was.

The same thing happened at Collngwood - when the late Bob Rose took over as Coach for a short time in 1984 - he came in preaching fire and brimstone - and the younger players didn't even know who he was, they thought he was an old committeeman who had invaded the dressing rooms and had lost the plot.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

G'day Agro, yes 20/20 hindsight is a magnificent thing, and I agree that Jezza was the "right person at the right time". No problems with that.

What I am suggesting is not that Jezza was 'Our' super coach (and I don't give shit if it was Neil Roberts, Parkin or Syd Jackson as coach at the time) I'm reflecting on the fact that Jezza was there to win us a grand final and he was in the right place at the right time to win us more; and in fact as we all know and grasp whilst we rightfully squeeze every drop of juice from everything related to the successful 70's and 80's to our advantage, we must remember that period was a rosy time for us, given the cattle we had on the field.

The relative point I was making was that regardless of who was there, a boardroom blitz cost us a premiership in 1980. Don't worry about the steroids and Richmond, as they were everywhere at the time; Richmond didn't have it as a patented product all to themselves (Graeme Richmond, alias Sir Les Patterson couldn't spell ' Steroid' at the time), nor did they create 'Dolly' the sheep.

I am saying that a boardroom biff is healthy to herald intelligent discussion, but timimg must also be considered and Carlton and not individuals should be the heart of our passion and our opinions.

IMO that the boardroon brawl in 1979 was bad timing and as a result (forget about 20/20 because I live Carlton and am a pragmatist) was central to costing us the 1980 Grand Final; again, because of the cattle we had at the time. Most Richmond people were glad we were still focussing on "Southby 1973 falling on Balme's fist", and the "Carlton inhouse brawling caused by Rice"; and they are not my words, but I don't ignore them as they hurt and are tattooed inside my left eyelid.

We won in 81 and 82 subsequently, and if you understand steroids, they are not something you just give up when the going is good and I suggest to you that, if Richmond were on steroids and won, they were still on steroids when Carlton won the next TWO IN A ROW!!

1979, BLIP, 1981, 1982. Tells me everything regarding possibility, and I have no doubts on capability.

Brawling and Rice COST MY TEAM the 1980 FLAG. That's all.


That's all????

Well F**** me swinging if I'm going to ever accept that sort os shit again.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Hey dont get me wrong - I would have loved to have won those 4 flags in a row. I have said on other threads - we won 3 flags in 4 years it was a great time to be a Carlton Supporter - our side never got the credit it deserved over those 4 years (no thanks to Tom Prior ).

It was also a great time to be a student at Melbourne Uni and follow Carlton during those days - and many a celebration was had at Naughton's Pub - with the boys in tow as well.

It is well known that Richmond came from nowhere in 79 to win the flag in 80 and then disappeared again in 81.

Jezza may have got us over the line in 80 - we'll never know.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

The annoying thing about missing in 80 is I don't think the club gets its true accolades for 3 flags in 4 years. Crossing 2 decades also doesn't help.

This team was surely one of the best ever.

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Everything before the word "but" is horseshit - J Snow

Back to the topic, if a team that said to it's players "make the semi finals of the NAB Cup and the players can use half the prize money towards an end of season trip, to the tune of , over $100k towards the trip, is that cheating??? (YES!!)


Pagan is right.

Pagan is right.

Pagan is right.