A 7 point defeat is certainly not the best way to debut here on TC, nonetheless here I go...

The first quater was dismal. Saddington was a terrible mismatch on O'Laughlin - a mistake perhaps - which allowed Sydney to start with a strong attack and left Carlton looking absolutely hopeless in defence. I turn to the right and McLaren is lining up at full-forward and Fev is floating across half-forward, or as I like to call it, 'no-man's-land'

Would someone please explain the rationale behind Pagan's decision to play (arguably) the league's most prolific forward away from the sticks that have given him this worthy reputation. Did we want to lose?

Quite simply, Sydney busted their balls. They flooded back, and then streamed forward with enough force to put 8 goals on the scoreboard. Carlton also flooded back, but once they gained possession from a free kick or behind, they decided to give it straight back to the opposition. Now I only played junior football, and I was told - even at this level - that stupid turnovers are a "BIG NO NO!"

As for the rest of the game, Carlton did well to get the ball, in fact we dominated! We managed to clear from defence, win centre clearances and even hold a few marks, however, we failed to USE the ball effectively. Possession ultimately resulted in a turnover - 9 out of 10 times.

Despite the complete mish-mash of the first half, God decided to shine a light this holy Easter weekend on a few good men - Fevola, Betts, Murphy and Whitnall. These men showed courage, passion and most of all true professionalism. Betts was extraordinary out of the middle - i assume he'll play there next week - and is exceptionally exciting within a close vicinity of the goals. Whitts has been our best this season so far. He continues to defy the critics and put in a truly BLUE effort each week. Fev had disappointing moments, but can you blame him? He tries his heart out, he kicks those impossible goals, and tackles and chases just to make life easier for his mates on the other side of the ground. He too is a true Blue.

As for Mighty Murphy, the 18 year old with more talent, prowess and finesse than most of his more mature team mates, showed us tonight that Carlton does have a future. He reminded us that we don't have to accept second rate performances from players like Sporn and Houlihan who have been around for 5yrs already, but instead we can look forward to hard, honest and PROFESSIONAL football. He earns half as much as most the guys on the list, yet he works triple as hard, and earns every penny.

5 minutes to go in the final quater I was confident MY BLUES would get over the line. However, the sound of BOOing with reference to the Sydney game-plan made me realise my hopes were not going to be realised. I arose from my seat and I too booed. Not at the Swans though but at our boys. In between my booing I found myself clapping for the Swans, afterall I'm a football fan, and I like to complement great footy!

Whilst it may not have been pleasant on the eyes, Sydney's last 5minutes epitomised what we at Carlton lack...

We lack the skill to carry out a game plan
We lack the grace to win a game
We lack team cohesion.
We lack the professionalism and the leadership of the Swans
We lack the ability to counter a simple keepings-off attempt
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAN UP!

I booed Carlton because all the 18 professional, elite, footballers and athletes had to do was get on a man, force a stoppage or a turnover and then WANT the ball more than the opposition. Sydney recognised our inability and geniusly exploited it - that's why I clapped for them!

Earlier I mentioned my junior footy days...

One of my coaches at the time (a former Hawthorn player) said, footy is 90% cerebral - ie. its all mental! We saw that today. When we finally had the belief in ourselves, we showed true ability and it was reflected on the scoreboard.

I have the utmost faith in our team. We have 4 players (as mentioned abouv) who are willing to BLEED BLUE BLOOD, I want more to enlist!

Personally, I don't believe Pagan is the man for the job, I believe our management is as responsilbe as the players for every loss and they simply aren't performing. Every kick that goes astray, every mark that gets dropped, every extra second we spend making decisions I believe is management's fault. The same as a CEO takes responsility for the employees in his retail outlets, our executives must take responsibility for their employees - the players.

Great changes are upon us! But true salvation will only occur once all 22 blokes sweat the same BLUE blood!

Thanks for having me guys!

Please make it your last.

Dont agree with everything but it was a pretty good frst up LL... welcome.

were a young side.

What we need to do now is make sure all our kids continue to improve as best we can.
I thought we lacked imagination tonight.

In my opinion we could have won if we were more brave .

Im not talking about the players.. theyre showing fight.

Im talking the coaches box,

Hopefully they also learn from that and stick their nuts out abit more in the next game.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Yeah not quite as good as your high quality posts!!!

The Moderators would be doing a great job if they could automate your font to be invisible

Very ordinary response,and unwarranted in my book.

Good to have some new blood on the Board,particularly someone who can clearly enunciate their views.

Welcome!

You don't need to start a new thread. Just add your thoughts to the game thread like most others do.

Bingo Synbad....

I struggle to understand why we are not pro active enough.
Then when we're reactive its not full on enough or soon enough.
I just wonder at times if Pagan really does believe in our players and maybe the lack of belief that he has restricts him in the way he coaches come match day.
My faith in Pagan as a coach has never been that he is the be all and end all of coaches, i'm starting to think he might be better suited to going down the Parkin - Brittain model.

This is not being critical of Pagan but i just think the game has changed so much since his glory days at the Roos that he might just be an "old dog who struggles with new tricks". Is Pagan a stubborn person by nature ? i wonder??

Now coming into this weeks game assuming we lose Fev,Lappin,and have no Waite. My changes would be to drop Teague and Chambers also.

In i'd have Carlos, Bannister, Wiggins and Kennedy ( if fit - otherwise someone who is mobile mid sized and can mark maybe Livo or tlo )

My rationale Bannister and Wiggins are big (small) enough to match up on Hawthorns forwards. Kennedy ( Livo ) is good enough to match up on Dawson as a one out forward when we flood and Carlos offers us the moving target role up front.

I believe that if Pagan goes with his flood tactics ( as he does ) what might be an Option is too leave Kennedy( Livo ) up front as a one out target. We then get a good look at Kennedy and he gets a taste, by playing on a relatively newcomer in Dawson who might not just be experienced enough to expose a young gun.

Carlos roaming opens up the forward line, bringing the ball to ground and providing a contest every time, even to the point where he could push up to the wing to provide a contest so our extractor(s) might be able to get to the foot of the packs and get the ball out and moved on. Our main issue will be Mitchell but i have faith in Bentick being able to win his fair share of the contested ball.

Bannister i think is a good inclusion as he is mobile enough and big enough to play KP against the Hawks, Wiggo is ideal also as he could be suited by match ups here.

Also bringing in Carlos and Kennedy also gives us the option of moving Lance forward if we have to. Keep Saddo in as he needs game time and he is a must this year in our best 20.
Livo might stay out for another week due to match ups. Unless Pagan goes out on a limb and brings Livo in instead of Kennedy and plays Livo forward ( like his junior days ). Maybe slow but Neitz isn't no flying machine, and Livo playing the offensive role not defensive role might be a confidence booster for him, releasing some pressure off him in the way of accountability.

In anyway what do i know i'm just another supporter who has opinions and i can't be right all the time can i. But then again maybe Pagan isn't right all the time also.

Time to be bold... Lets give opposition clubs something to think about. Predictability has cost us too much..

Thats all.

_________________
I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

Good to see everyone is entitled to their opinion on this post

Pagan was a great coach at the Kangaroos, but without his past experience, his last 4 years do not amount to superstardom!

The same as we applaud him when we win, I think we need to criticise him when we lose.

I just don't understand why our players kick long to contests that we never win. I don't understand why we hold up the ball so much. I dont understand why we still wait for the umpire to wave the flags after a kickout - our opposition constantly take advantage of this new rule. I don't understand why we fail to man up on defense and allow opposition teams to move the ball so easily. I dont understand why Eddie and Fev are played out of position so often. Eddie is fantastic around goal and in the middle, yet he's played everywhere else. Fev is at his best leading out of the goal square yet he floats around the forward fifty and watches the ball float over his head.

I don't understand why certain players are not given a go, and I don't understand why certain players are continually lining up come match day.

I dont understand why our skills are still so poor. I dont understand why we always kick more behinds than goals.

I simply don't understand why Pagan and his team have not perfected these consistent imperfections in whats been almost 4 years!

Synbad good to see I've found my first ally.

I hope no one gets me wrong, I love my team to bits. But I have mates that are Saints and Cats supporters and simply don't accept mediocrity. So i figure, WHY SHOULD I?

I stopped reading after that bit, and I don't think I'll be going out of my way to read your posts in the future. You call yourself a "football fan", yet you applauded that shit the swans served up last night?




That was absolutely pathetic football from the worst team to win a premiership, in my time following the game. And to think I was actually barracking for them in the Grand Final

_________________
Watch out, Ryan8025 may surprise you all.

I have a question for you Ryan. Whilst i agree that what the swans did was absolute rubbish and i can defiantly say i was one of the fans who ended up loosing my voice after abusing them so bloody much, Dont you also blame Carlton? Unless it was just me, didn't you too notice that this was the way that the swans were going to play from the outset and therfore we had 4 quarters, thats a full 120 minutes or whatever it is to man up. It is not a hard thing to do, to get a man and stand next to him and when we dont have the ball run to where he runs. I mean not at one stage ( i dont think) was there ever a time where every carlton player had a man and there wasn't a lose swan hanging around. Now i was disgusted at the game and the way they played. I think they are donig a very good job of wrecking football, however we let them do it because we are to selfish or lazy one of the two to go pick up a man and stick with him and cause them to kick the ball to a contest!

Well thats my take on things, what do you think Ryan?
MB

_________________
Loooook OUT!

What was worse Ryan, the fact the Swans played keepings off, or the fact we couldn't counteract their strategy?

Simply man up, force them to kick to a contest and force a stoppage. Instead we let them hold the ball for around 5minutes.

We had the momentum, why should Sydney kick to a contest and risk losing the ball when they have men on their own? Remember Sydney didn't need to score, they needed to stop us from scoring. Like I said, that passage of play is no fun for the spectator, but was a very clever strategy. I would urge our players to do the same!

Fact is, we failed! And instead of taking accountability for our failure, we're shifting the blame onto Sydney.

Winners never blame others they look forward and chase better results. They're accountable for where they’re at and where they’re going.

Well if you can't figure it out for yourself, I'm certainly not going to explain it to you.

But I just hope you are as stridently positive when we win as you are negative when we lose.

You're right to point that finger at the coaching last night though. I think we definately choked in the coachs box. We should have gone man on man all over the park the second we reeled in that deficit in the 3rd quarter.

I think you're a Sydney fan Larry. First post is the day before the game. First Carlton player you mention is Saddington. Applaud Swans style of footy.

_________________
"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

I agree we have to be more brave especially at the selection table.

But IMHO its Paul Roos who doesn't have the guts to try and coach to win, he coaches not to lose first.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

The day we play like that, is the same day I will lose my passion for the club.

If I wanted to watch a game like that, I'd go and watch soccer.


No, we shouldn't have tried to beat the swans at their own game. More to the point, we should not have allowed them to play that way in the first place. Short of having 18 players in the defensive 50 throughout the entire game, right from the opening bounce (which I actually think we should do next time we play them... just as a one-off, I'm not suggesting we make a habit out of it), fast, open and free-flowing football is the only thing that can beat that shit they play. We needed to rotate our midfield, and run them off their legs all day, and get the ball into our forward line as quickly as possible, catching them all out of position.

Honestly, I am not worried about the individual results from every game we play this year. I know we would be very lucky to win more than 7 (to pick a random number) of our remaining games this year. I am more interested in watching my team work their arses off, and knowing that we are going somewhere.

Don't get me wrong. I do want us to win every single week, and I'm always disapointed when we don't. If we play at our best, and get beaten by a team playing at their best, there's nothing we can do about it, other than look towards next week, and beyond.


However, even if we had've won last night, I would be saying exactly the same thing. The way the swans played, was a blight on the game. They don't truly "win" games, they just bore the other team into submission, until they lose it for themselves.

The cold hard reality is that at the end of the day, if a team plays like that, and does it well enough, they will get the four points. If they do it all year, they will "not lose" more than they lose. If that happens often, enough to bring them repeated success, other teams will start copying their style. Then football will be lost forever.


MB, I could not agree with you more.. However, we are not the only team to let them get away with playing like that. My comments are more to do with the playing style of the swans, and this post probably belongs in TalkingAFL.

_________________
Watch out, Ryan8025 may surprise you all.

As I said earlier...

Fact is, we failed! And instead of taking accountability for our failure, we're shifting the blame onto Sydney.

Winners never blame others they look forward and chase better results. They're accountable for where they’re at and where they’re going.

Ryan, the only way to weed that type of game play out of footy is to counteract it! We are responsible for Sydney playing that way! We let them exploit us! Had we manned up properly, they would not have the option of playing the way they did!

Be accountable Ryan... this is our fault, not theirs!

Sydney Larry wrote

First post ! Shit Larry,you go in hard..........gotta agree RE last quarter.Beyond belief that we didnt go one on one.Anyhow,whats done is done.Which brings me to next weeks game against Hawks.Well,the Hawks play a very similar game to the Swans,but not as good.In fact they fumble badly if you put them under pressure.They dont possess the skill of the Swans,and are very susceptable to man on man pressure.There kicking goes to the shithouse.Thats the theme this week Denis....pressure.Like the true nancy boys they are,they dont like it.

_________________
All my dangerous friends

Brave post there Lanky.... I agree and disagree with you... although I believe it was a very smart way of playing football (but I dont think it was good football, in fact I think it was shocking and I would be pissed off if I were a swans fan) by the swans... I hated it and I hope that Carlton are never ever forced to play that style of football... and if I were to boo Carlton for anything it would have been because we couldn't man up and if we had've, there style of play wouldn't have worked. So really... all we need to do is talk more, man up and work on getting the ball to an actual target and we will be set.

_________________
GO BLUE BOYS!!

Criticise Sydney all we want but they play a style which maximises their strengths.
We on the other hand tried to disassemble our opponent instead of backing ourselves in to win.

We won the clearances 43 to 30, yet we were the reactive team.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.