Deano people on this site and others continually tout that Denis is a great developer of youth - I fail to see it - If Denis was a developer of youth Angwin and Norman would have been easy- Remember Angwin went top 10 in the draft . Denis failed with these two players - He has had 4 years to develop Sporn - Wiggin and Livo they are no better off then when he came

Also this Whitnal fiasco at the moment is showing us all what he is really like

Lance, Stevo and Livo have had it upto hear with Denis. Those exact words muttered out from a player who lives in Moonee Ponds mouth.

The players are all in very good spirits and happy with everyone.. These words spoken from a player who lives very close to Moonee Ponds

I'd say he shares a small portion of responsibility for the worst list as well. Certainly not the lions share of it, but enough of a responsibility to raise an eyebrow.

Re-tread after re-tread, and all its earnt us is a decent result no where near the finals, and another wooden spoon, and probably another one this year.

It might be 90% the draft penalties, but the 10% has to go to Pagan. He has traded and drafted (with the picks he will have had some hand in - ie the retreads) abyssmally, with only a couple of exceptions.

Obviously Hamill and Gehrig have high quality... higher than the potential of most players. Most of the others played rarely when the young players were in the side (ie, they were back up to the kids) and were eventually displaced from the list by new kids.

Our problem is the quality of Chambers, Bannister, Longmuir et.al is very very low... lower than a tolerable AFL level. we achieve nothing by selecting players who should and will be delisted over players who could potentially NOT be delisted.

its funny yeah, everything right is not pagan's fault, everything wrong (even players aging) is.

Does he get everything right? No. Does he get more right than wrong? Herein lies the debate. lets try and keep it here rather than all or nothings. Otherwise it becomes pointless.

We are trying to gauge the failure/success of our coach. Circumstances must be taken into account.

The argument is now how much.

Should we be further along? If so, why aren't we?

What are his faults, are they damaging?

What are his strengths, do they outweigh his faults?

This all or nothing shite SB dos nothing but diminish the debate.

When the penalties were handed down most of us thought we'd be several years at the bottom rebuilding a shit list.

So what's happening now?

I for 1 am extremely happy with the list we are assembling - it has holes and these holes must be addressed but we are gathering a large,m talented bunch of kids - will they make it? Not all of them. But enough, if enough do we are well on the way.

We now have 2 top liners in Tex and Murph. Then we have Kennedy - that may make 3. Another this year is 4. Then there are the hopes for the others. players like JR, Bower, Edwards etc. Can some of them become topliners? so for list accumulation i give us a tick.


Development: Pleased with Tex. Understand that he could now go in the midfield, but really we also need a defence and he may be a cornerstone of that defence. It certainly looks like it We have an attacker of possibly the Mcleod ilk but who can be plonked on a Croad when that player is in full flight. That is an amazing weapon for us. Yes i would like to see him given a go forward sometimes, and on the ball other times, but shit he has developed.

Murph? Can't fault - yes yes, he is a great kid, still the club seem to be managing him right if we go by his output.

Simmo - very happy. As I said, I think the next big challenge for Simmo is that other teams are plonking speedsters on him, good. He seems to thrive on a challenge. He's developing.

AB - most here were not expecting a lot. I love his effort. I think that hit he took from Richo proves he is something, a soldeir, a leader perhaps.

JR - everyone begged him to be left in, he was and even I have to admit he now should stay. he looked even better against the Tiges, I don't know but something about him says JR belongs. He seems to be developing nicely.

Hartlett. - Liked what is aw of the kid during the NAB but he is injured again. Problem with the body - no fault of Denis's I would suspect.

Houla - not my fav player but he is better than he was 3 years ago. Far better. More versatile.

Betts - moving between the pocket and midfield - he is small, he is light, he is being developed. Doesn't seem to be being overused. Glad. Can't wait for another couple on preseasons on this kid.

Most of the others kids play with the ants or ants reserves. Mitchell seems to be doing okay there. As fro Denis needing to do more with them. I know Sheedy has little to do with players until he moves them into the firsts. I expect many coaches are the same. Things must be delegated. I am happy with Mitchell even though I was a Ross Lyon fan - liked his way of addressign the kid at the huddles , thats really all i am basing that on.

So I am happy with development remembering that age cannot be accelerated, and fast tracking is a lovely managerial term but in truth, as Maslow explained, things cannot be taught until the unconscious mind is conscious of the need to learn the next step. So a player must first be made aware of what they need to learn, need to grasp that lesson, before the next step can occur.

Match Day. Not happy with kick outs at all. Seems to me we are one of the worst at taking advantage of the kick out or of turnovers. Shits me no end. Denis needs to address this.

Match-ups. Mostly I think he gets it pretty right but not alays and he seems to struggle with our players weaknesses at times (or is he trying to develop them?) ie Lance on Croad...shudder.

Moves in a game. Sometimes I think they come too slowly but tohers do not bug me as much as some. A move is not an isolated event, but like chess, a move is made to balance the whole field - I do like that Denis never seems to be rushed into a move, yet he may be to reactive rather than proactive.

The Flood - well I just hate this full stop.

Leadership has not been adressed. Must be. lay this at Denis's feet. if it means upsetting the older guys upset them.

All i all i am still happy with Denis. We are more competitive this year (so far) no blows outs (so far) the kids are developing. Expected a bottom four finish and still think that's what we'll get. I expect us to be a middle of the road team next year pushing to win a few games in a row and maybe break almost even, say 10 wins/12 losses. Bottom four next year would be a failure on Denis's part.

The year after I expect a big improvement. I hope if Denis is sacked and this improvement comes in 2008 people realize that perhaps Denis was laying solid foundations after all.