You are always going to have the going home problem with the likes of Voss

Mitchell has been there for a while and he should be making an influence whilst he is there.

Look at someone like Roos, he was a great club player and he helped grow the club to a new level.

I am not saying we have to get an ex carlton player, but it would be wise to get a Victorian.

Paul Hudson - currently with Gippsland Power

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

How are Gippsland going?

To be honest, I think if we could poach a current coach right now it'd be Eade. He seems to have the ability to assess a list and construct a gameplan to the lists strengths, not just impose a gameplan on a collection of footballers and expect them to execute it regardless of whether they're especially suited to it.

In the future I'd like a Voss on board, and maybe, in 5-10 years, after most of the blokes he played with are gone, Silvagni.
I just think there's still water that needs to go under the bridge with SOS.

As far as thinking outside the box... Matthews.

If he wants a a new challenge, and leaves Brisbane in the next couple of seasons... He's very good at taking a talented, yet underperforming side to the top and keeping them there.

I reckon Matthews is the best idea I have heard all day.

He has the mongrel that we need.

I want Carlton to hit the ball as hard as we did in the 80's and 90's.

Matthews would not accept pretty, little football like we are playing at the moment.

silvagni is the long term answer.

Voss is very similar in background and credentials to Ron Barassi when Carlton recruited him as coach in 1964.

He is a successful Premiership Captain, he has a good relationship with his successcul Premiership Coach Leigh Matthews (Norm Smith).

Like Ron Barassi back then he may or may not be ready to be a Senior Coach. In those days a player could jump straight into Coaching these days a player needs to complete an Assistants Coach Apprenticeship.

Although Voss seems to be the sort of bloke who may have picked up a lot just by being around the Brisbane/Matthews organisation.

If we could attract Voss to the club as an Assistant we would have to make it extremely worth his while to convince him that his playing days are over - and the beauty of it his salary does not fall under the Salary Cap.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

I'll take 3 thanks:

SOS, Craig and Pagan.

Silvagni is one of Carlton's greatest on field sons - however he is not and never will be the long term answer as a Coach.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Voss and Matthews would be bloody fantastic. Then you would have real coaching staff to get us where we belong.

SOS has shown he has got a footy brain at Sydney and now the doggies, dont write the idea off

Grant Thomas because he has done wonders in getting an average list to the finals and he will be available at the end of the year.

When will the media turn their eye to Moorabbin? They should be accounting for sides like the Dockers and Power with a list like that.

I reckon bloody Tim Watson could have done a better job with that list than Thomas.

he is SHIT!

Silvagni has a communication problem - he is not a gifted public speaker, he cannot express his ideas succinctly or with any inspiration (and please dont give me that "speech at 3/4 time in the 99 Preliminary Final" as an example).

We dont need Teddy Whitten type "you've got to inspire me" type speeches from our coaches.

We need vision and long term plans to resurrect this football club from the abyss of:

- poor player development
- poor player training facilities
- lack of scientific approach when it comes to developing player training programs

We need to be bought into the 21st Century.

You cant get by anymore with getting a Jezza to fill the breach mid-season and bring you from bottom place to a spot in the finals in the course of one season - those irons in the fire dont exist in the AFL anymore.

We need to think outside the square - like I have said elsewhere is it Ric Charlesworth type who would be a Director of Football with all elements of Football Operations (including Match Day Coach) answerable to him, I dont know, but what I do know its better than what we have been doing for the past 4 years.

Pagan was a great man and coach for his time and I have been the first one to sing his praises and have said give the man time - just check all my posts here and at the other place over the past 3 years. But I have realised that his time is up.

I should have realised at the Family Day back in 2002 after Black Friday when Pagan stood in front of an adoring throng and promised us "FINALS ACTION" in 2003. Maybe he didnt realise the enormity of the task or how shit we were. He may realise it now - but its too little too late.

TIME FOR SOMEONE NEW.

1000 people in for $1000 - PAGAN OUT

You will be bigger heroes and leave a more lasting legacy than the "CARLTON HEROES STAND" every will.

I am dead serious.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

It is good and well too tell people how wrong they are.
BUT! do you have any answers?
When everyone gives you the $1000 where will it go?
Who is the candidate for Carlton saviour?
Is Carlton playing with heart?
Will millions of Collywobble money win them a flag?
NO IT WONT
We need a group of players being lead by a figurehead that representative of the future of the Carlton football club.
We do not need PLAYER MANAGERS Of course we need some Admin and appropriate support staff, but Pagan is not the answer.
Whe I say hitting the ball I mean hitting with vigour and intent. @ ATTRIBUTES I HAVE NOT SEEN SINCE 99!
If you want my $1000 give me a reason not another question!

I dont want your $1000.

The club needs your $1000.

The club needs to get rid of Denis Pagan and it will cost them at least $1,000,000 to pay out his contract.

The club doesnt have this lump sum at the moment to do this.

The club is hamstrung and cant do anything about it due to money.

We are stuck with someone who cant take us into the 21st Century.

But if you are not convinced dont worry there may be 999 others.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

The club is stuck at the moment.

I agree with you on that.

However, the senior coach, just like a PM represents the club.

I agree that Pagan is not a good representative of the club, nor is he fulfilling his aspirations to get Carlton back at the pinnacle of the AFL.

There will always be a need for a leader of Carlton football club to represent the club on and off the field.

Carlton needs a strong but progressive leader that has elements of football pedigree and spirit. SIMULTANEOUSLY.
In my world that is defined as : FOOTBALL MONGREL
Able to have a beer.
Watch the stockmarket and
Inspire with good decisive action.

LONG LIVE FOOTY MONGREL!

What about Shaun Rehn?

He apparently did well grooming youngsters in the SANFL and now has the experience of working under Leigh Mathews.

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There is no footy god

He's one I would consider, as well as Vossy.

I agree with Agro about SOS. I think SOS will only ever be a good assistant coach. Nothing wrong with that though.

gee Agro how'd it be of you gave the club the money, they sacked denis and hired SOS or Dermie or Gawee Lyon....

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Nice idea in theory AGRO but I think there is the potential for Coach/Director of Football conflict here. A coach would probably feel as though his position is being undermined somewhat by the presence of this Director of Football, part of whose job is to oversee the coaching at the club. There is an example of sorts in British Soccer at Southampton F.C. where Sir Clive Woodward was brought in as like a Director of Football when Harry Redknapp was coach and there were constant murmurings of discontent and that the position of the coach was seriously undermined.

I know that you were just flagging a proposal though more than advocating a steadfastly held belief and it's actually an idea to which I have given thought in the past but weighing everything up I submit that the coach being answerable to the club, board and supporters is enough.

Otherwise, and this is more in general, do we definitely know that Michael Voss even wants to coach? Brett Ratten too? Neither of these guys can just waltz in and become senior coach without gaining experience as assistant coaches. Where is Ratten coaching nowadays, and why did Melbourne get rid of him?

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.