Everyone on here keeps saying we are ordinary becuase of black friday.. the scary thing is it should not be affecting us yet. WHilst Goddard, Wells, Mclean\Sylvia would have been great pick-ups.. they are still 20-21 and would not be carrying our team into the finals. Where we have been let down is in the draft where Sporn and Wiggins were our two First rounders....2000 draft.

That year not only did we have Pick 4,11,15 and 31. Whilst it may be great to look back in hindsight we drafted Livingston, Sporn, Wiggins and Blake Campbell. Compare this to the following players that went after our various picks...Motlop, Scott Thompson, S. Burgoyne, K. Cornes, D. Kerr, A. Mcphee, M Coghlan. Now whilst it may be great saying all these wot-ifs.. but players at these ages are the ones that SHOULD BE influencing our side now... However, 3 of our picks are constant Bullant stars and the other is prob playing country footy someone.... Then there is the SUPER DRAFT of 2001 where we traded away our first round pick and second round together with Porter for McKernan... but dont get me started with that....

Anyway.. thought I'd raise this as I am sick of ppl blaming Black Friday.. the affects of that are still to come....

This one beens done to death. We all know.

Glad we missed out on Goddard. He's crap at St.Kilda, imagine how he'd be at Carlton. Much happier with Simmo and Fisher, and happy with Walker and Stevens (PSD) who we got the next year. So we got out of it not as badly as we imagine, not enough for the cop-out excuses. Admittedly the "extra" selection that we "earned" would've been nice but that just a bonus most years. As would the picks we missed. We missed Wells (ouch) and whoever was first round in the next year. If we were lucky we may have got a good second rounder too. Second round picks can start be beome a lottery. Rookie listed players have played more games generally than second round picks. In the end though we probably did better than most sides who finished in the 8 who get normal 1 & 2 round selections. Lack of high draft picks have had no great effect at Sydney (premiers....Schneider and Buchanan both in the 50's/60's) or Geelong, both who don't have much in the way of real high draft picks in their team. Back on the rookie list, players off there in most clubs have played more games than the draft picks over the years, including a hell of a lot of top ten picks (of course there is Judd, Hodge and Ball too, who everyone would love). Saw that on a thread on BigFooty with figures comparing them. It was interesting. to see.Rookie lists players come down to coaching development, something that doesn't happen much down here.

Goddard was brilliant last week against the bulldogs... if he plays like that for us he'd win the best and fairest by the length of the straight.

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Unfortunately Jim a very simplistic view.
How much more room do Sydney have in their salary cap? Is it a million dollars?

Last week or not, for a no.1 pick, he's been very average for St.Kilda in a good side. He's been there for 4 years and got dropped a couple of weeks ago. He'd be worse again playing for us, like our good players that are there now. Our side tends to drag players down under the current climate. Let's look at it another way, how well would some of our players go playing in a good club under a coach they'd respect. You might find then that our guys could actually play.

Still no high draft picks there. Getting Barry Hall with the extra was handy admittedly. They never get high picks because they're in the finals every year. They have a coach they'd die for and get the most out of their team.

See over time if it catch up with them.

a highly simplistic view of player ability vs performance.

Constantly I am reminded how great it is that people from this site aren't involved in trading or recruiting... well, almost everyone here isn't

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Goddard would fit in very nicely on our half back line .. and I'm sure Wells and McLean might squeeze in a game in our midfield rotation

It makes a huge difference - and when you put it next to a our poor drafting from 1997 onwards (culminating in the 2000 and 2001 efforts) - and is the reason why we are as bad as we are.

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We were in the market for both Hall and McKernan when they were seeking moves - we chose McKernan.

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Who have they been able to buy with that extra money? No one.

Who have we lost to Sydney by not having an extra mil in the salary cap? No one, we lost Hamill to St Kilda. St Kilda who work under the same cap we do.

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No, Hall chose Sydney over us

I don't know who we would have prefered in a perfect world, but Hall made the choice, not us

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Hall wanted out of Melbourne, so we were never a chance to get him.

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People think he'd just come to Carlton and star. Get real. Abilities one thing, producing it is another. He's had 4 years and done very little. Problem here people are still crying because we missed out on him.

Yes, I will agree if we got every pick, we would technically be way better off. I edited my original post to reflect that because it didn't read quite right. Probably still on the bottom given who's coaching us, but much better off talent-wise. But what I'm saying is with what we got, and we got out of it better than we imagined, like getting a PP and Stevens in 2003. Looking at it another way, that made up for the normal first and second rounds most sides get. Other years that would have been a bonus for us. I'm just making a comparison though to what the other sides get, not so much what we missed out on, which naturally would have improved our talent base.

OK Brad you are very young so I will go easy on you. I'll start off with Barry Hall arguably the number 1 player in the AFL, then go onto Paul Williams who was broke and needed money, then try Jason Ball and then Nick Davis who got them into to the prelim, then I will ask you a question.
Who have they not lost because of the extra million dollars?

The last 3 they would've got under a normal salary cap. They were good players but not superstars when the Swans got them They found an "extra" leg while they were there under Paul Roos. The Swans are very good at recruiting players from other clubs to fill weaknesses (Eg Jolly last year with their first round pick). As for losing players, you're right, they've lost no-one. At the same time they don't have the glamour players of Brisbane so their salary wouldn't be such an issue.

well, we don't know how much the extra money played on the mind of a Ball or Williams.. we don't know if they offered them more money or not. If a guy like Jason Ball is offered a $200k contract (just to pick a number) for Sydney and a $150k from Carlton... which would he choose? Those $50ks all add up....

its hard to say because we don't konw what the players at Sydney are on..... but woof may have a very valid point.

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Jim,

I will put it very simply. They get them because they can pay more money. They don't lose them because they can pay more money.
Saddington is playing for us and they are picking up a fair portion of his salary. Not only do they have room to player there own players wages but they are also paying for one of our players wages.

I think Brad was referring to big name, market players.
Williams, Ball and Davis don't exactly fall under that category.

Hall is the only player I can think of that they have recruited since their salary cap allowance.

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We payed out others for years too. Hall is the only real big name they got. Most clubs could afford to pay most of those guys what they got because they weren't superstars when they crossed over. They could to pay them more now admittedly. Imagine they were just normal, run of the mill trades when they first got them though. The cap itself wouldn't have been an issue at the time of recruiting. They won a flag without high draft picks.