this is a completely redundant thread anyway, because this thread implies that we can make a conscious decision to stop playing "to win" and play "to graciously lose".

We don't have a "to win" game plan.... we have a "to lose without any grace at all", but no "to win"

either way, we're losing and the draft picks are ours

So, the issue is that can we play with grace or no grace?

I choose grace

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Love Cricket? Love me

Getting back to the topic, I'm pretty sure that there is also a special consideration clause to get a priority pick in the first round instead of after the first round. To qualify you need to show the AFL that your club is in need of extra help or something along those lines. I'm not sure how the AFL will see our Club's case though.

On what some of you have been saying about Lance. I agree with Synbad that we should trade him when we get the chance at the end of the season. Not sold on his current form and we are in desparate need of some AFL standard players. If we are going to get rid of many of the players not up to standard(Wiggins, Davies, Prendergast, etc..) we will need to find at least a few current players who are able to play and Lance will be able to net us some.
If we could get a pick and a player (22-24, decent and serviceable. Think Rice, Hickmott types) or a couple of players (same criteria) we would be better off. Even with his current form he can't win games off his own boot so why not go for some young talent with picks or some depth with some decent players.

Tyrant is correct, tanking assumes that we have the ability to choose whether or not we win - which is laughable. You will probably also find that cfc players will be putting more effort into every facet of their game come years end as the axe will be swinging freely. In our case, tanking is a supporter mindset; cling to it if you can't accept that our best still falls short.

As for Lance, the best the club would manage would be a player trade - something along the lines of a straight swap for Matt Mcguire or Brendan Goddard could probably be arranged.

Tanking Carlton - It's all about Bryce Gibbs!

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I AM DISENFRANCHISED

there's no tanking anyway

we're like a guy falling to earth from a plane anyway... he can't fall any faster!!!!

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Love Cricket? Love me

Depends on whether he opens his parachute or not.

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I AM DISENFRANCHISED

Ball Hall is a parachute

Luke Hodge is a parachute

Chris Judd is a parachute


.............. we don't have a parachute

we're dead either way

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Love Cricket? Love me

Never heard of him.

Is he eligible for the NRS?

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I AM DISENFRANCHISED

he's the unholy love child of Luke Ball and Barry Hall

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN???? DERRR!!!!!!

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Love Cricket? Love me

Pagan tanks every week by flooding, virtually conceding before we start. Round 21 is about the only time you tank, like last year. We are had that choice of tanking last year as we hit a burst of form, but it might not matter this year as we probably won't need to tank to lose.

Can't believe anyone wants to trade Lance for the lottery of a draft pick. People talk about Goddard, but he's done little in 4 years. Played more like a reasonable 3rd or 4th round pick, certainly not like a no.1. Certainly not disappointed to miss out on him. So, in some respects, it is a lottery, although 4 of the last 5 no.1's have been very good (Hodge, Cooney, Deledio and Murphy) and the way things stand we'll get that pick anyway, unless the Lions really implode and self-destruct. Certainly wouldn't like to lose our best player and a natural leader for a kid who may or may not make it. No guarantees in the draft, they're still kids. Rather than trading Lance I'm tipping the club will make him captain next year. Any club's performance is defined by it's leaders. Good leaders can take you places, without them you sink. Kids need leadership or you end up like like a ship without a rudder.

I bet StKilda arent complaining with pick #13 that they got for Hall...

You have to brave....!!!

Whitnall isnt a leader... if he was he wouldnt have had a 4 year sleep.and presented the way he has been for years...

We need more youth to place around the talent were amassing and give ourselves a fair dinkum opportunity to win a flag as they all mature together.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

True you have to be brave but to an extent its still a lottery.

Look at our first round draft picks in 2000

Synbad wrote:

Isn't it about time you acknowledge he's turned it around. There is absolutely no gaurantee that whatever 17-18yo we get for Whitnall (? pick 10-20 if we're lucky) will end up being any more productive than Lance. In fact based on this years form, we'de be mad to trade Lance for anyting less than pick 9 IMO. And we know that no club is going to trade away a low 1st round pick this year. SO let's stop dreaming can we please. And while we're at it, let's get off Lance's back. If Lance were not playing as well as he has been this year, I'd suggest we'd be getting by pumped by 10+ goals every week & nobody wants that.

Can Lance be trusted not to go back to his "unhealthy" habits if given the leadership?

Do we take the risk that he wont "fall of the wagon" and make fools of the club (again)?

His track record isn't good is it?

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There's so much I could say...

Doesn't mean we won't regret it. There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity. And yes, he is a leader, the best we have. The types you need to build your youngsters around, like it or not. The main thing we lack is a decent coach, we both agree on that, and that would be the major step for a list that isn't as bad as many make out.

Who is a better leader than him right now?

Lance is worth more currency right now than he was at the end of last year even if he is a little bit older. Will Barry Mitchell be brave?

All this talk about trading some of our senior players is pure nonsense. Not that I am not prepared to consider trading a player, any player for that matter for the long term betterment of the club. When your club is the laughing stock of the competition and has been languishing down the bottom of the ladder it holds little currency in terms of player trades. Clubs like St Kilda and West Coast can extract quality draft picks for their players because of their winning culture, we cannot. The fact that Lance stands out in a team filled with average footballers will not get us a reasonable draft pick. Just look at what Essendon* were prepared to trade for Campo.

We should not be prepared to give opposition clubs bargain basement prices for our senior players. We are not in a position to trade ourselves out of our mess.

Lets increase our expenditure in our recruiting department and make sure we pick up some quality late picks that have escaped the radar of opposition clubs ie 3rd 4th and 5th round picks.

"right now"... thats exactly right... not yesterday and maybe not tomorrow...

You just hit the nail on the head didnt you???

Were looking at everything in isolation cos we are clutching at straws..

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He may have had issues with weight but between his mother dearest and his genetics, you can hardly heap on the bloke as much as you would if say a Lappin checked in that many kilos overweight.

He has his excuses, but the whole time through, players have sought out Lance for advice, because he has a lot to give and he's been through a lot, and come out the other end a better person and a better player.

If that doesn't forge leadership credentials, I don't know what will.