KK I understand what you're saying about the AFL's promotion of the code.

But I think regardless, that market will always rely on the local team(s) success.

Obviously I don't live in sydney so don't know a lot about the demographic of AFL follower in Mardi Gras territory, but similarly to Brisbane I'd guess that the success of the code in Sydney is dependant on the success of their one team.

If, for example, the Swans sat 14th and the Parramatta Platypuses sat 16th, how strong would the code's support be in NSW?

Not very, would be my guess.

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Congratulations CK95

I gotta agree with our learned friend KK from Sydney on this one. Have you any idea as to the number of kids participating in the Auskick program in NSW and Qld? Probably not, but a number of clubs are knocking them back due to lack of spaces. KK said that the AFL aren't supporting the code, but at least they are at a grassroots level, but it will take time for that to mature. The old saying rings true "If you want to win the hearts and minds of a generation, win the kids first"

Brisbane used to have a very strong 8 team competition, but the Gold Coast grew so rapidly and with 300,000 ex Victorians there, their clubs became stronger than the Brisbane Clubs. The QAFL (Now AFLQ), admitted a couple of Gold Coast clubs into their comp and then a couple more and soon Brisbane clubs started to merge/relocate/disband. Now there are only 4 Brisbane clubs in the AFLQ from an area of 2.5 million people. One of them the Mayne Tigers has won a handful of games in 10 years. My old club Coorparoo (Jason Dunstall & Shane O'Sullivan) who wore the Carlton strip for 50 years were dumped from the comp and eventually disbanded. Western Districts were firstly merged with Sherwood Districts to become West Brisbane and afer a few years were dumped and then disbanded too. These three clubs had history stretching back beyond 60 years.

A big proportion of the Yogi Bears support base comes from the Sunshine Coast and the Gold Coast, however there are plenty of fairweather and occasional supporters. The Gold Coast is Australias fastest growing city and now has a population larger than Tasmania, and almost double the ACT. It is also 50 minutes down the M1 from Brisbane City. There are squillions of southerners living permantly there who follow anybody but the Brions. It can clearly support an AFL team and will very soon.

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2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

That’s Despicable………
I can’t get Daffy’s spray to emphasise Despicable ……..

It’s also ….
Inconceivable
Absurd
Ridiculous
Ludicrous
Preposterous
Outrageous
Contemptible
Loathsome
Repugnant
Hideous
Shocking
Deplorable
Unpardonable
Reprehensible
Culpable ……….. etc

We have a disappointing 26,000 + members …… down around 6000 from last year. Not good, but still 26,000 when we’re not travelling too well.
I heard Malthouse say on SEN this morning that Wobbles are on 36,000 at the moment. Didn’t they have 40+ last year????...., and they are on fire. What will happen to the saints Membership numbers when their list deteriorates after 6 or 7 years without priority picks??

Demons, Dogs & Kangas get a $Million handout each year, just to stay on the Park. There are a heap of sides in Melbourne that will have to look at merging / relocating long before we will ever fall.

The AFL kicked the crap out of us for a number of reasons ….. doesn’t mean they don’t want us around, an in Melbourne!! They just thought they needed to bring us down a peg or two …. And they certainly did!!.

Merge …. Relocate ….. Wash your mouth out!!

Bet I'm not wrong. Ridiculous notion to think otherwise. Don't care how big the city is, the TV ratings indicate otherwise in regards to interest. That's why it's coverage isn't great on FTA TV there. Sydney is RL territory with a AFL team who anyone interested in Aussie Rules there supports. The name "Sydney" itself inspires state-wide support. You'd have to find a way of generating new fans from those that support AFL and already follow Sydney. Rationalise all you like, putting 2nd teams up north won't work while my @rse points to the ground. Not enough true, rock-solid, support for the code yet in those states, irrespective of the crowds they get. Until you get that putting another team there is a disaster waiting to happen.

By your logic if Sydney can't support 2 teams, how can Melbourne support 9? There's nothing in it.

It's a chicken-or-egg argument.

Here's how it basically runs:

TV ratings suck because theres no interest -> there's no interest because the AFL doesn't push the game very well up here -> The AFL doesn't push the games up here because it costs money, especially FTA advertising cash -> There's no FTA advertising cash spare because the ratings aren't good.






Wrong. The number of cars up here with Carlton, Kangaroo, Essendon*, Collingwood, St Kilda and even Melbourne stickers on them says that there's a big vein of support for the game which hasn't been attempted to be tapped.



Wrong again. There are as many fans of AFL up here who love seeing nothing more than The Swans losing, simply because we're force fed a diet of Swans pap.



Like I said, that lays directly at the feet of the AFL itself, who don't promote THE GAME OF AFL in Sydney, but instead push the Swans on us.

I suggest you actually live in Sydney, and understand what's going on here with RL support, which is pathetic, with some people not having watched a single match since SuperLeague. If that's not a market waiting to be mined, then I'm Paul Sironen. When you get even Hard, life-long Leaguies like Roy Masters sitting up and paying attention to the game up here, you're making inroads. The problem is that those inroads aren't being looked into, and if the AFL doesn't capitalise on the Swans' success, and soon, then it will close up.

Hammer, that's a fair point you make, but there's seriously an opportunity to "rust on" some supporters int he next couple of years, if the AFL moves quickly, and doesn't piss it up the wall.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

anybody actually vote lol

Sorry Brizzie stupid Poll when most people dont agree with the options ...and as stated The Blues wont be shunted too important for the city of Melbourne crowds still good but had 4 years of nothing .. when the wheel turns again we will be strong again perhaps more so because of our lean patch.

I voted Sydney, just to annoy jim

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

i would never ever want to see the blues leave melbourne or infact carlton (as a base, the move from OO was needed, and i loved OO as much as the next carlton fan-it was a move that was necessary). i am with all the others who posted about the "no to all" option.

carlton should never move, i hope they never do.

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"In fairness it did seem in the early days of the draft teams would just pick a name totally at random out of a hat. I'm pretty sure we picked James Cook at #2 one year. The mediocre forward, not the explorer" - Me, 12/9/2011

Carlton 2012: Lets remind them why they once feared the Dark.

I reckon there will be a second team in Sydney. It won't be Carlton though. And I don't have the foggiest when it will happen, but I reckon it will

It is fair to say that we're all passionate about the blues so it is not surprising that we are all dead against it, but what about the other 20,000 members that maybe aren't as passionate about us and would not care if they only saw 11 games a year instead of 15/16. I mean those games would be at the Dome or MCG so what would really be the difference.

We would probably get a lot more exposure into Melbourne.

Elliot suggested back in the 80's that we were prepared to play all our away games in Sydney so he definitely saw a market for it. And from an economic point of view it seems to make sense.

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"our guest is dressed by hand-me-downs, hair designed by pillow"

[quote="BrizzyBlue"]Mods,

but if we were left with no alternative but to do a deal to secure the future of the club in some form, what would be palatable to most supporters?[/size=18]

Let’s assume it is completely untenable to remain in our current state as the Carlton Blues based in Melbourne.

What do you think is the best option going forward if we were forced into an alliance of some sort?

I really believe that any and all true Carlton supporters would give their own family jewels to prevent the Blues moving anywhere or merging, but what has been hypothetically asked above I believe is a very reasonable question with this in mind.

The fact that some have seen fit to voice their preference to retain the Carlton brand, history, etc in some form or another in some place or another in Australia, regardless of the obvious immense personal pain and anguish this would bring to them, is IMHO an incredible positive. These options are far more preferable to seeing the Blues disappear altogether which is the premise on which the question was asked.

While we are all passionately and personally attached to Carlton, Carlton F.C. is bigger than all of us, and should remain so. Carlton's future shouldn't be restricted by its past and our own historical association with it, but free and forward focused enough to do whatever it needs to do to become again everything it has been to all of us, and even more for those people who will come after us. Our children and grandchildren especially.

We were, are still, and will continue to be, the benchmark of the most successful club in the history of this incredible game. We are, and should continue to be, an institution in the AFL. But only will be if we are open to change and innovation to preserve what has gone before us, by considering all options available, by being smart, and by seizing great opportunities when they present themselves. We need to be open to the possibilities that lie ahead for the CFC not blinkered by our own personal agendas, and historys. No matter how powerful and significant to our own self-identity they may be.

Painful though it may be to consider for us all, good on you Brizzy Blue for asking it!

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A Blues Supporter - not a Blues Bagger.

I think a terminally ill Demetrispew would certainly ensure a healthy Carlton as far as I'm concerned.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

You are wrong on that China Blue .... a lot of supporters would no longer be members of some different hybrid club... the Blues are not a club that can change much like the Pies / Tigers or Bombers these four clubs are the strongest representatives of Melbourne and also the most successful well Bombers and Pies are lol and to be honest the AFL couldnt afford any othese four clubs to change as if the AFL know that these 4 clubs are too important to shift.

No probs China, someone had to. I don't mind a bit of controversy, but its a shame that it has been taken outta context by lots of people on the 3 forums I post on. You'd think this speculation was my idea. I have been a loyal Carlton supporter since high school. Almost 40 bloody years. I want us to continue in the tradition of the past, but I just can't see the AFL cutting us enough slack.

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2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

Merge with Richmond and become the Carlton Tigers, Richmond Blues or TheTeamWithTheSupportersWhoAlwaysKnowBetter. Based in Melbourne. Home Ground: Princes Park, Home Games: Punt Road. Strip: The word 'Coach' written in Black inside a Red circle with a diagonal line through it on a Blue/White/Yellow background.

We can have a new coach each week after the supporters bound together to oust the Coach/President/Board by petition after every game. All supporters will be rattling tins before and after every game to pay for all the sackings.

We can be sponsored be Centrelink as we'll be sending a lot of work their way.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Brad, your best post, EVER!

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Seriously.... if we want to consider this path, we should be flogging ourselves for an alignment with a sporting team internationally..... AFL is a good case for high performance coaching (I mean.... if we stepped into the 21st century and THEN started flogging ourselves....) I'm sure from a high-impact aerobic sports science thingy point of view... a close tab on our players and training habits would be of interest to a soccer club overseas, or an NFL team. Also, a database of 30,000+ members and a foot in the door of the Aussie market... if we slapped a coat of paint in our coaching and sports science practices and knocked on the door of AC Milan... they might look to co-share our player data etc etc...

Also, sending some youth team players over to do our pre-season training... for a month or so, might interest them.

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Love Cricket? Love me

They said the Swans concept would never work.....some of you dont get it....its Tv Footy and TV rights money..members are secondary to the AFL...they want more games on the box.
The AFL changed, contorted the rules, did everything they could to get Sydney a flag....be no different with any other relocated team...remember think TV and TV rights money with these issues....thats what the AFL are about these days.....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Took a long time to get Sydney going. Whoever follow Aussie Rules in Sydney support Sydney, even if it's just for the name alone. A second club will struggle with that support, same in Brisbane. They're states simply not passionate about AFL as we are. Look at the TV ratings, that alone will tell you. Any other thoughts involve dreaming.

I dont think support is an issue..they just want the game on TV ..Sydney often had no one there during the dark old days of the Swans...its about you and me wanting to watch some footy on a sunday afternoon and having to watch what is on regardless of the teams playing.....supporters/gate money vs TV dollars isnt a contest.....the AFL will spend 2 mill or whateva picking up the shortfall if it means seven/nine whoeva are paying an extra 50-100 mill on the TV right deal because there are now 10 -20 games more on TV with new teams......
You are kidding yourself if you think lack of support/numbers at games has anything to do with the overall plans of the AFL....footy is going to be for the armchair viewer like it is for a lot of major sport overseas...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen