yeah, I can see yuor point Elwood... but I really don't think the club is going to sack him based soley on the petition

and, the flipside of the coin is that Pagan sees the writing on the wall and decides to walk with dignity before he is pushed... and we can come to an agreement with him RE payouts that works out well for both parties (ie, $0 or not far off it).....

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Love Cricket? Love me

This is a new low in our recent history. I cant think of anything more embarassing or stupid.

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T E A M

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

And hey, why don't we also send a truck load of chicken's hearts MC
Labour park while we're at it....

Honestly, we whinge and moan about all the negative press we get, and then we just fuel it with crap like this. I'll happily have my 2 cents worth about the petition if Camo or one of his lackys presents me with it on Sunday... this is not helping the club at all...

It was one bad half!!!

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If meat is murder then yoghurt must be burglary
GO YOU BIG RED FIRE ENGINE
Move aside Kouta, Lance etc - you're holding us back... from entering the under 18s

We're into a bad 4th year, gone form last to last and are a rabble. This will at least let the club know what the supporters thinks. Supporters=memberships, which are already down this year and will only crash further at this point the way things are.

The extra money it wioll cost will come from maybe giving a payrise to Barry Mitchell (another couple fo hundred thousand maybe) as we have to pay Pagan anyway, just do it over 3 years of his original contract rather than all at once. Th extra we pay Mitchell would be made up for when Kouta's contract finishes and maybe memberships increasing again. No excuses on the financial front.

and you'd have every right not to sign it and be vocal about it

this is a democracy and people have the right to start petitions.... and people have the right to sign them or not sign them.

In a democracy, if Cammo got 20,000 member signatures that were all legitimate (lets say), the Wolfy, you'd have to say that was pretty compelling evidence of what the people want and you'd have to say the petition was a good idea.

if he gets 100 then it wasn't a productive exercise etc

democracy!

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Love Cricket? Love me

Hang your head in shame Cammo wherever you are!!!! I dont want you at our game publically denigrating, running down and damaging our club. Instead why dont you Hop this web sitehere and sign up. This mob will love you for it:

http://richmondfc.com.au/default.asp?pg=insidetheclub&spg=brochure

Bring your petition anywhere near me on the weekend and it'll be heading somewhere that the sun dont shine, tied to the outside of a watermelon!!! I guess that Cammo must be studying for a PhD in AFL coaching at Uni then to make him such an expet.

Some of the drivel going around at the moment almost makes me ashamed to follow the blues. Ever heard of the term 'sticking fat'??? I find it amazing how the same people who get upset at the club for making safe, defensive moves like recruiting retreads and winning 10 games in 04 instead of taking chances both during games and also in recruiting, marketing etc etc are the same people who are the first ones to sharpen up the knives and call for heads. Somebody explain to me how sacking or threatening to sack people is going to encourage folks to be more creative, take risks and have a long term vision. Yep lets sack the coach, president and spill the board. Bring in a new bloke and tell him that he has 6 games to perform or he's out the door too...oh and by the way we want you to recruit and play for the long term instead of quick term results.

Any other club/coach combination faced with the same situation Pagan faced when he came here would be in exactly the same position. How do you reckon Brisbane will go if the AFL took away their draft picks for the next 2 years.

Could all of the 'I hate the gameplan and I hate flooding' collective please get on a bus and go see Sam Newman down at shady acrers. You guys can watch re-runs of the 1970 GF for hours and gasp in awe at 'real' footy like it used to be. Back here in the real world the rest of us will stay here and support the club whilst it moves on.

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

I'm just realistic... I didn't expect anything from this year. Look at our list - it's still reeling from shithouse recruiting 95 - 02... that's not Pagan's fault... and I don't think it matters who the coach is, you can't turn a team into gold based on picking up 4 good 17 year olds and Nick Stevens in 3 years...

We talk about being happy losing - this time last year the same people who are pissed at Pagan's record now, were pissed at him for wanting to win and not play for draft picks... how does the bloke win?

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If meat is murder then yoghurt must be burglary
GO YOU BIG RED FIRE ENGINE
Move aside Kouta, Lance etc - you're holding us back... from entering the under 18s

Good bloke cammo but I completely agree with this post:





Won't the Ess fans be laughing on Sunday.

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#DonTheStash

There is a lot of confusion coming out in that post, 2nd effort.... a lot of your "cannot understands" and "can someone explain to mes" are things are pretty logical to me, and logical to a lot of us... and our logic comes out in our 1,000,000,000,000,000 posts on the topics.. My advice is to actually read the posts we make and you'll be able to answer your own questions. Otherwise... and this is going to sound awfully dismissive, but there isnt' a lot of substance in there that we can engage in and sort you out with

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Love Cricket? Love me

This club is a democracy, and just as I have a right to say Pagan isn't the right man for the job, or even just have an opinion on the topic, Cammo has the right to start a petition

if you think its a bad idea, just don't sign it.

At least, unlike under Eliott, we are exercising our right to democratic free speech

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Love Cricket? Love me

Pagan was involved in drafting the retreads that has put us back another 2 years. No other club would be stupid enough to draft retreads, Essendon* and Melbourne never drafted retreads when they were hit with penalties.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

And the vast majority of posters here were involved in the cheers & high hopes for those retreads at the end of 03.

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#DonTheStash

The happy was losing bit was a bit harsh in hindsight. I'll edit it and remove it.

Pagan rarely wins. He has 19 out of 72 times. The list is not as bad as what people make out. I'd like a game plan that gives a forward line of Fev, Lance, Waite, Fisher and Betts every opportunity, a forward line any side would be proud of, instead we're play numbers back because we're afraid of copping a hiding, giving those guys I mentioned no hope as they are always outnumbered going forwards . Our game plan's crap, our match-up and selections diabolical and the players play without pasion, committent and at times, even interest. That is the coach's fault. The players play with much more committment when they play for the Bullants under Barry Mitchell. We have gone no-where in 4 years under Pagan. Even if we do struggle we want some progress at least. We have none of that. A blind man can see that. He time here has been soul-destroying and the quicker he's gone the better.

And there is some evidence that the Board put pressure on Pagan for short term solutions due to the financial state of the Club. Would have liked to see supporters react to 1 - 3 wins in 04 playing with a bunch of kids drafted at 80 plus that year..... or even keeping Allan & Co.

20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Pfffft Petition who do they think they are

Bloody AGRO got a collection going here

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Exactly, there is a lot of revisionism going on at the moment.

It's embarrasing for the whole club that a ridiculous petition with no answers comes up like this after just 6 rounds of the season.

The democracy argument is a non-argument, everyone would agree with that hence there is no point bringing it up.

It is a democracy and there is a right to denigrate dumb knee-jerk ideas, not to just 'not sign the petition'.

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

Should the club start letting the members decide who should be coach?

IMHO, Cammo is a tool of the highest order and this just proves it.

We (The CFC) is officially a joke.

I don't think Pagan would be concerned.

http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,86 ... 11,00.html