Well they had the balls to get rid of Blight and his ego and it was one of the best decisions they've ever made.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Really? That sort of call could only really be made if they'd won a flag under GT....but that's a side issue.

Now I have a question for all the Sack Pagan Now people.

Say you were to sign a sacking petition before the Ess game. That's a pretty clear & definite stating of your stance.

Now, say we win the game pretty comfortably. Does your opinion change at all or are you still convinced he should be sacked now?

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#DonTheStash

Hawthorn have done very well...but at the essence of this is that they have been able to trade average footballers (thompson and hay) for very good draft picks. This has meant they have been able to stock up on youth within the top 20-25 picks in the last few years.

After being stripped of a years worth of high end picks, the following year we then weren't even able to TRADE INTO the first two rounds because of our penalties so our first two years of 'rebuilding' can not be compared to that of Hawthorn...

Hat's off to the Hawks but filling your list with the cream of the draft is a very different scenario to filling up your list with speculative picks at the pointy end of the draft.

Sheedy must be loving all of this

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

Agree completely. We've had one terrible half and been competitive in the other games.

He might not be the right man for the job, but so far on the evidence of 6 rounds he deserves more time. If the hidings become the norm I might rethink that, but at the moment I don't think we should be callign for his head, especially in light of his contract.

No one is going to turn this club around and have us playing finals this year, so we've got the rest of the year to decide whether he should coach us going forward.

Any new coach should be in place for the draft and preseason if that is the decision going forward, and we might even give Mitchell 3 or 4 rounds to test the water, Paul Roos style if things get worse in the next 10 weeks, but sacking the coach now achieves nothing IMO.

Is that a serious question? 4 years ago we had a shit list with no kids and no future.

We still have the worst list in the league but at least we have some young talent coming through and are back in the draft. However it takes time to build a new list from scratch. If you look at the development of players frafted at 70 plus like Simmo, AB, Waite and Fisher.... not bad I think.

I am undecided on Pagan and will wait until the end of the year to make my mind up. I think his list management and the development of the young players have been a plus. Some of te match day decisions (match-ups, tactics) I have been less impressed with.

I do however understand that sometimes you need a circuit breaker to get things moving forward and a change might be necessary. But not as a knee jerk reaction and not mid-season. If a change needs to be done it has to be well planned and executed.

It will be interesting to see how the players react to all this

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Given DP's contract situation, the best outcome would be a type of director of coaching role for Denis. He just has to step back (even more so than he has been asked to do). The important thing is who they bring in to take up the slack. This person cannot be TE - should be given the door. I know DP would be devastated because he can't function without TE but too bad!! I think BM should stay with the Bullants and develop more there. I would love to see M.Voss brought in as an assistant at the end of this season. We need someone who has just been at the coalface and knows what happens out on the field. Carlton needs to show some balls and ensure DP coaches under these conditions. Pandering to DP and his appendix TE is going to kill this club!!

Can't speak for everyone but I reckon we will win. No it won't change my opinion I've had since 2003. He wasn't the right coach then and he isn't now.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Accepted. Despite not really seeing eye to eye with you I acknowledge that you & your mate Sydney have had this conviction for some time. It's more the people who've been jumping up & down since the Coll debacle I'm talking about.

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#DonTheStash

Regardless of whether or not he is the right coach for us, NOW or in 2003, this is not the way to do things. We look like we can't run our club, i understand supporters are frustrated, so am i, but we have had a lot of success in the past that we probably took for granted at the time. I don't think Pagan is right for the job, but booting him out mid-season isn't going to do anything good for the players or supporters.

who gives a rats!

I just want to beat Essendon*!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Is it time for football yet?

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Cer 'ch 'n alluog Blues

It wasn't the coll debacle that tipped me over CK, it was a combination of that and dropping Russell etc that did me in.

I've been harbouring long term fears since the Rich game last year. Because I've 'come out' this week doesn't mean it is knee jerk or reactive, it just means I've had enough.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

The heat in the kitchen is steadily rising.

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There's so much I could say...

I'm not going to sign the petition.
Things like this reflect poorly on the fans and the club.

have you got the games mixed up. perhaps thinking of the collingwood game where Whitnall went to the forward line at 3/4 time.



he took Whitnall from the forward line and put him in Defence when we where winning the game 4 goals to 2 at 1/4 time



I would have thought that would of meant our forward line was winning the battle and our back line was also winning the battle in the first quarter then Pagan shit himself becuase Richo had 1 goal and wanted Whitnall to go down to defence, thus taking him out of the forward line and stuffing up the winning match ups we had in the 1/4.

or am i missing the point completly?

We were winning, Richo was getting a few touches, but wasnt worrying us on the scoreboard so wasnt a problem to worry about IMO.

I cant make head nor tails of your post

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

Has natnat been informed?

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#DonTheStash

To be honest this is the first time I've been on the sight. And its only becuase I read about it in todays paper. But I've got to give my opinion. Firstly I can understand everyones frustration. I mean Carlton's current efforts on field don't warrant too much smiling. But instead of going straight to the head of the animal - look at the problem areas. Firstly, before the Hawthorn game, we were playing good competitive football. I was really impressed with some of the things I saw. Although we weren't exactly the prettiest, we came off the pitch with our heads up high. Hawthorn ruined us becuase we had no forward line. There wasn't anyone to kick goals. And as a result we got done by just over thirty points in the end. Sunday we got smashed by the Pies. I hated it just as much as the rest of you. But look at why this is happening. The secret to our on field success relies on having a backline. Currently we don't have one. This is why we're losing games more than anything else. On Sunday we played against a Collingwood side with an excellent forwardline and backline. The midfield was very even. We probably didn't play as well as we usually do, but lets face it.... When you come up against a side like Collingwood don't expect to win. Pagan.... To his credit has done some good things at Carlton. If it weren't for him we wouldn't even have Fevola. We weren't able to compete in the draft. What do you want for nothing? I strongly believe that if we can inject some good defenders into our side we can be a serious contenter in the competition (Providing Lance goes forward). And as for this Cam guy starting a petition.... Mate you try being Denis for a day and see what you think afterwards. Its so easy to point the finger but lets face it - Pagan has the runs on the board.

I tend to agree with Jarusa on this. The petition is a dumb idea and will achieve nothing more than make the club the laughing stock of the AFL as well as adding to the continuining negative publicity.
Yes, if it is Cammo who started the petition then he has a right to do so and he may well get quite a few signatures but it will do nothing more than continue to feed the media the sort of fodder they love to publish.
I can't wait for some moron to start up a bring back Elliott petition