It makes us look like a bunch of ferals publicly in front of the other 15 teams, and meantime those people with sense send in their letters and emails to club and talk to people at the club to get their point across and express their concerns.

A petition like this serves to divide rather than unite the Carlton supporting community for the acheivement of what? Nothing, the club would already be well aware of supporter concerns through the traditional channels.

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

Well the media caught onto the big Pagan thread in here. Should we stop making threads to avoid the scrutiny from the media?

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

I want Pagan gone but I won't be associating myself with any petition.

Results and the players will be the downfall of Pagan, they are the most powerfull force in any club and know whether he is the right man or not.

I would expect the board would consult the players sooner than later on the matter.

What is alarming is the fact no "leader" has come out in support of Pagan as coach.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

So let me get this right !!

A high proportion of people would like to see Pagan removed from his position yet none of them are prepared to put pen to paper in order to fascilitate a show of unity towards it ??

This shows why we are in a such a bad state overall. We have a board who are taking the soft option, we have a playing list being flogged to death by an out-of-touch coach and a heap of supporters who don't want to speak up about it.

Have we actually moved on from the Elliott-era ??

Sad times in Carlton-land right now.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

Cammo getting a gig on TFS? Suddenly I want to watch, idiots taking down a bigger idiot several pegs. Pity Eddie isn't on because he would have given him an absolute serve.


I think they just understand the futility of such an argument, you need something to come out of the club in the form of a statement or scandal, until then they just sit here and ask for it, I'm sure somebody has heard them, whether it be through the forum direct or today's paper.

Going by the response Cammo got on BigFooty I'm not convinced there's a "high proportion" or "a heap of supporters" who want rid of Pagan outside of a couple of small internet communities of Carlton tragics.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

We cant afford to sack Pagan however we should sack most of the specialist coaches. Remeber what are these coaches exactly specialising in????? our players cant kick, mark or handball effectively!

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

So how else do you guage the feeling of the Blues fans overall then ?? Run a poll on the official club site ??

If we accept that the ratio of Blues supporters who actually post on internet forums is 1 in 50 and we collectively have 500 people wanting Pagan removed, then it stands to reason that there are 25K Blues fans who don't want him there.

Just because you can't hear every voice involved doesn't meant there isn't a groundswell of support for it. Not everyone has access to a mass communication outlet like the forums.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

Why can't we 'afford' it ??

Do you actually believe that we couldn't find the money to pay him out if we needed to ??

Are you trying to say that we have lost all of our 'high-roller' blue-chip supporters ?? Ten of them could open their wallets and throw the cash on the table to pay him out in a nanosecond.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

After Third Hour: Total collated from 3 sites:

Petition Yes: 24%

Petition No: 76%

Only early days yet, should have clearer picture later tonight.

B B

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2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

Okay ive worded it incorrectly. I’m sure if we "really" needed too we could find the funds to sack Pagan. However wouldn’t you think those funds could be allocated better? I would rather pump that money into new training facilities or even upgrades.

Pagan was one of the best coaches in the AFL when we signed him. If we sack him tonight, next month or next year there is no guarantee that our next coach would do any better?

Pagan has proved over the years he can coach, and remember only last year he achieved a Wizard cup win with the worst list in the comp. The club is in shit atm and I think if we need to pay Pagan out it would be a waste to pay out his contract and get an unproven coach which will have a higher unknown.

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

Why can't we afford to sack him. Think about it, pay him out over 3years of his contract, no extra, the extra coming from giving Mitchell a pay rise from Assistant Coach to become Senior Coach, which may not be all that much. probably covered by Kouta going off contract. So yes, we can afford to pay him out. It's not rocket-science, just have to think about it. It's way better that than going through nearly three more years of what we've put up with over the last 3 years. We probably paid more a few years ago paying the contracts of our ex-players while playing at other clubs, while still paying our coach too.

Was ?? That is 100% correct, but you could have been too if you had Wayne Carey in your line-up.

As for new training facilities ?? I agree it would be great to have them but why bother right now ?? There isn't the coaching infrastructure in place to take full advantage of it.

Look, you can have the best of everything at your disposal but if you don't have the necessary management in place to run it, then it is highly doubtful that there will be results to match.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

That's not business, that's charity.

Actually it brings up another point, if the club wanted to sack him now, they would. But they haven't.

An absolute disgrace!

Call me old fashioned but washing your dirty linen in public?

Seems to me that someone is on an ego trip!

Interesting that Cammo is behind this and in particular questioning someones credibilty and ability to do a job?.I have observed the young mans internet posting history and wonder if under pressure how he could justify many of his public posting.I suspect under pressure his credibilty would struggle to stand up?

As i read it ,whilst many may have strong views of the ability or otherwise of Dennis Pagan,there seems a general reluctance to sully the brand of the CFC in Public.To conduct a witch hunt on an internet forum to me seems a disappointing scenario to our current plight!


.

Are you saying Pagan only won those Premierships because of Wayne Carey?... (who developed Wayne Carey into a leader and the best CHF? i dont know?)


There is no point sacking Pagan unless we have the right person to take the job.

If we sack Pagan who do we appoint as our long term coach? We cant head hunt anybody and if we can there is no garentee they could get us in the 8.

IMO i dont think Pagan is playing to win games this year. His main priority is the development of our younger players.

The club is f*#ked in all areas atm but it doesnt automatically mean sack the coach.

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

How much clearer are you waiting for the picture to get??!!

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"...that's the thing about opinion - you don't have to know anything to have one..." Andre Agassi commenting on Pat Cash 2004
"...the less you know - the more you believe..." - Bono 2006

Total votes BB?

After Fourth Hour: Total collated from 3 sites:

Petition Yes: 23%

Petition No: 77%

Getting a clearer picture now.

B B

_________________
2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!