If that is the case then you need to gather the signatures needed for a special general meeting for a spill of the board and offer another ticket that will implement the cultural change you want.

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quite correct... that is one method.... another method is to create a bad media frenzy now and leave the issue to simmer on the hotplate and see who falls on their sword, and who will stand up in their wake.

civil disobedience takes many forms. I'm almost determined to stop going to matches while Pagan is coaching... thats my stand, small though it may be.

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Love Cricket? Love me

Can I have your seat?

True.

A spill of the board would be the common endpoint I assume as the board are the only party with the power to implement wholesale change.

Yes, the journey to that endpoint could take many forms though.

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

Those in favour of this petition are missing the point, Pagan is the least of our worries, our financial position is critical and sacking the coach will likely make it worse. Getting a new coach will not make it better this year, we may get a few more members but that's simply a band-aid approach to a gaping financial wound and will get us nowhere in the long run.

This petition is a waste of energy at the moment and is distracting everyone from the real problem.

Quite frankly I'm not sure that the proposed petition is likely to achieve any action other than continue to heap more ridicule and woe onto the already battered club and supporters. In terms of the petition achieving any action, I am firmly against what the petition proposes so I am not in any position to advocate links between the petition and action. I dont want the petition to succeeed so why would I investigate the links between petition and action.

I can see that this is Cammo's vehicle to vent his spleen, and that of like-minded supporters to the current board. I can understand that they think the removal of Pagan might be a positive for the club. I can accept that they want to get this message across to those that make the decisions. All power to them for being passionate about the blues and wanting to stand up for their club. Where I differ is that I beleive their actions are misguided and ineffective. I think that others will take their passionate pleas and twist them for their own ends. I think that the spin others will put on their message will only damage the original intent and alienate its supporters. In short I think that the well intentioned plea for something Cammo and supporters feel would improve our onfield performances, might in fact do nothing for changing coach but instead damage, divide and alienate our supporters. Fev has been on Nova this morning asking for fans to get behind the playing group. It must be hard as a player knowing that you're losing games, the club's losing money and now your supporters are starting to fight amongst themselves and call for the sacking of your coach.

I support Cammo's right to express his opinion as many on here have said but I dont agree with his timing, sentiment or application. I personally think that this proposed action, whilst done with the best of intentions will only serve to backfire upon not only Cammo and his supporters but also on a lot of us that dont share his views. In short I think it is naive and easily manuipulated by others who will use it to feed what is rapidly becoming a 'tail spin' of negative sentiment in the football media for the club.

How else can Cammo make his feelings known? Personally I dont want Pagan sacked mid season so I havent given it too much thought. Given his rapidly rising profile, perhaps he and his collective could request a meeting with club officials. Perhaps they could start gathering numbers for the board elections at season's end. My personal preference is that he swaps his petition for a collection tin at the game as it seems that onfield tactical decisions may well be the slightest of our problems at the moment

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

Are you a complete moron or what?

Denis Pagan and his outdated methods and personality are ruining this club. Signing this bozo for 3 more years will make an already bad situation even worse. Watch our onfield performances continue to decline and as a result impact further on our off-field position. Memerbships and revenue are down because we are coached by an antiquated fool who treats his players with contempt and is still trying to grasp the modern game. Oh, and you listen to what Brendan Fevola says do you? The sooner we get rid of this clown of a coach, the sooner we can get our players to start playing with some bloody spirit. Everything will then follow.

definitely

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Love Cricket? Love me

im not so sure about that.

we have mitchell already dont we? he would be on a decent salary as it stands.

we go to mitchell and say look, this is where we are, we have pagan's contract to consider, we also wont to further your career.

lets offer him 100k more than he is earning now with a 2 year contract, in a similair fashion to Clarkson with Hawthorn.

We offer him this as a trial period for 2 years and for both the club and himself and if he accepts it will only cost us an addition 200k over the 2 years to what we would currently be paying. at the end of the 2 years, if he is a good fit with us, and us a good fit with him, we increase his salary and his contract length.

we go to dennis and ask him to consider the 1 sump lump payment, say we are more than prepared to do it, but he would risk paying 900k in taxes in one year if he took it all in one sum, or we could spread the tax load and the load to us over 2 or 3 years. If he says no, we say fine, we are going to bankruptcy and he will get 7c n the dollar for his contract.

he would effectively be getting paid, just as he would as if he was still coaching, whilst not actually doing anything and we would have a young coach with new ideas etc.. hopefully changing the fortune around of the kids we have and further improving the playing stock through the draft.


to suggest that we have no options is not entirely correct, but of course that involves a couple of people coming to agreement.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

I'm sure I've read all this same stuff on another thread somewhere...



Completely different... the Elliot petition was at the end of a season, after his criminal handling of the club nearly led us into extinction... playing Whitnall in the backline isn't going to cost us draft picks and a million dollars in fines...

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If meat is murder then yoghurt must be burglary
GO YOU BIG RED FIRE ENGINE
Move aside Kouta, Lance etc - you're holding us back... from entering the under 18s

Who sits on the board is something the members are entitled to decide on. Who coaches the club is not something the members decide so there is a big difference.

no its not, there where plenty of people that didnt like the idea of the petition back then and thought it was disruptive to the club.

look, i dont agree with what cammo is doing, as i see no point in it myself, however, it shits me too tears to here people question him or anyone else for going this path, especially when they themselves went down this very same path just a few years ago.

whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

you cant have it both ways.

people used the petition as a valid form of protest to oust the previous board - and it was hailed as a massive success.

you cant now critisice someone else when they go the petition as a valid form of protest to try and get the point to the board that we, as the vast majority arent happy with the coach.

its a double standard

agree or disagree with cammo by all means, its your right, as it is his to start the petition

but to start declaring him this or that, or those that sign it, this or that, is flower hypocrisy of the highest order.

i wont sign it, as i see no point in it, however i wont critisice him for doing it, indeed, good on him for having the balls to do it.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

That's pretty much all you said to argue against these points... Basically what you're saying here is that if you've signed any petition for anything before, but argue that what Cammo is doing is bad for the club, then you're a fool... it's not that black and white...

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If meat is murder then yoghurt must be burglary
GO YOU BIG RED FIRE ENGINE
Move aside Kouta, Lance etc - you're holding us back... from entering the under 18s

Wolfy.. it was a different kind of petition.... the Elliott one was to affect change... Cammo's is to measure public opinion. Public opinion is always valid, irrespective of its timing... because the only change it will affect is a change of mindset among decision makers (at best). Its then THEIR decision to institute change if and when they feel they need to

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Love Cricket? Love me

yes i am saying that, the petition was used to oust the last board, a petition is being used to gather public opinion on whether or not the board should keep pagan - and some here are carrying on as if its cammo himself that has brought all the financial ruin that we see ourselves in at the moment.

a petition is simply that, you agree with it, you sign it, you dont agree with it, you dont sign it.

to start calling anyone that signs it or starts a petition disgrace is a flower joke, more so when it was people from this very website that started a petition to get rid of the pervious board.

you cant use a "petition" to serve your purpose and then critisice someone else for using a petition when it is something you dont agree with.

and that is my point. you can argue what cammo is suggesting until the cows come home but you can not argue or question his right to start or sign a petition just becuase you dont agree with it.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

That's what I'm saying too I think... they're different petitions - one had a legal means to an end with ousting the board under the rules of the MOA, the other is market research... as such, supporting one and being against the other is not a double standard... bloody market researchers... Cammo's going to call me while I'm eating my dinner next isn't he...

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If meat is murder then yoghurt must be burglary
GO YOU BIG RED FIRE ENGINE
Move aside Kouta, Lance etc - you're holding us back... from entering the under 18s

well yeah.... we identify them similarly, but I don't understand how the timing of it could be a bad idea.

If he was Max Grattan-ing for a board spill that would cost $X then maybe I could see your point.... but he's creating civil disobedience that will cost the club nothing (except bad press).

if the argument is then that the bad press will cost us financially in sponsorship etc etc... then I reckon the club is doing a good enough job on its own to create enough negative press that corporates wouldn't want a bar of

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Love Cricket? Love me

And members vowing to not support the club until Pagan goes?

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If meat is murder then yoghurt must be burglary
GO YOU BIG RED FIRE ENGINE
Move aside Kouta, Lance etc - you're holding us back... from entering the under 18s

well thats civil disobedience isn't it

but Cammo isn't FORCING them to sign... just like he's not creating the negativity toward Pagan

All he's doing is harnessing in a concentrated way.. he's encouraging a formal sense of disobedience, not creating the urge to disagree

and, civil disobedience is a very good (and cheap) way of affecting change... which is what many of us want

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Love Cricket? Love me

Do you think walking away from the club helps the club?

I don't

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If meat is murder then yoghurt must be burglary
GO YOU BIG RED FIRE ENGINE
Move aside Kouta, Lance etc - you're holding us back... from entering the under 18s