I bet Cammo gets more signatures on his petition than you got votes on your poll

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

SB, you absolute child.

OK, 35 Hours elapsed: Total collated from 3 sites:

Petition Yes: 28%

Petition No: 72%

Swung back a touch.

B B

_________________
2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

If Cammo's poll is worded to capture meaningful data, it'll be a million times better than this one.

the questions in this one are ridiculous. I'd like someone to explain to me what the stats for this actually mean

What does it mean that 20% agreed with the contention:

"Should we participate in a petition of supporters outside the MCG at the Essendon* game to sack Denis Pagan?"

that only 20% want to "participate" in the petition... how do you define "participate"? Sign the thing? Help cammo out by carrying clipboards? Not beat him up or take a court injunction to get him to stop?

What do the stats actually mean?

Polls are fun...... but now comes the analysis.

And any analysis you can draw from this poll isn't worth the bandwith its typed on, because the questionnaire is so ambiguous.

A thoroughly pointless exercise

I hope Cammo learns a lot from this poll and does the exact opposite

_________________
Love Cricket? Love me

Agreed - as pointless and futile as cammo's petition

_________________
Hooked on The Blues

Siily Me. All along I thought that Cammo was holding a petition collecting signatures. HMMMMM So now its a Poll.

_________________
Hooked on The Blues

yes... clever! picking me up on semantics when I myself have criticised the semantics of another!

ok, you're right.... Cammo's is a PETITION to gauge member agreement with a particular contention. Either way, I hope he's worded his contention in an unambiguous way.... which certainly can't be said for this POLL which has been, from a statistical point of view, a complete waste of time because you cannot draw a meaningful analysis of the results (because of the ambiguity of the question).

if Cammo's petition is clearly and unambiguously worded, then at least you can draw some meaningful analyses about his numbers.

But, its never going to be a great market test, unless he also records "no"s for people who don't want to sign, and can demonstrate their membership numbers as well.

Because without that, it would be hard to prove anything.... because unlike with the Elliott-out-EGM petition, there isn't a quorum necessary to prove anything or make anything happen.

At best, Cammo can say "I got 500 member signatures.. here they are, with membership numbers".

what we won't know is the sample size.

And thats basically the thing about Cammo's petition. Its not going to prove anything.... its almost irrelevant how many signatures he gets.

What it IS doing is creating media about disquiet among the supporter base, which ANY herald sun journalist can write about if he visits this site... or any Board member could witness if he visited.

I see Cammo's petition as an act of anti-board, anti-coach propaganda.... which is a cause I believe in.... and one I suspect a few others will too.

A clearer plan from the coach, some more long-term selections, a game plan that encourages adventure and a board who don't appear to be complete flower and we wouldn't need a petition..... and we wouldn't need civil disobedience.... and there wouldn't be quite so much dischord on this site for journos to quote......

There are 2 strategies to affecting change. One is the behind closed doors way..... the other is the out-in-public way. One you stab in the back when they don't see it coming, the other they are forced to speak to their poor actions and see the knife coming, and either stab themselves or aren't surprised when someone does it.

I agree with the latter.... maybe because I'm more honest... or maybe I feel some perverse need for Pagan and the board to admit their mistakes and apologise to us....

either way, I think anti-board and anti-coach propoganda is a good thing, and therefore I hope Cammo gets all the good media he can get.

_________________
Love Cricket? Love me

OK, 45 Hours elapsed: Total collated from 3 sites:

Petition Yes: 27%

Petition No: 73%

Swung back a bit more.

B B

_________________
2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

What a waste of time and energy. Bottom line, all this shows is that around 20% of forum members (not necessarily cfc members) think Pagan should be sacked mid-season. For those 20% morons I say this: Did it help Richmond over the last 20 years sacking their coach on numerous occasions mid year? And same again for St Kilda?

AND can we afford it? The answers: No No and No.

Actually it means 27% think Cammo is doing the right thing by having a petition this weekend.

Cammo has been on a rampage over on CSC and is doing himself no favours. Anything that has 'Carlton' and 'Football' in its name is copping a hiding.

NO it means 27% of people who responded are willing to PARTICIPATE in the petition

WHAT THE @#$%&! DOES THAT MEAN??? HOLD CLIPBOARDS THEMSELVES AND ASK FOR SIGNATURES??

This poll demeans us all

_________________
Love Cricket? Love me

OK, Set time has elapsed: Total collated from 3 sites:

Petition Yes: 27%

Petition No: 73%

Don't quite know what it proved other than 73% of posters who responded wish to disassociate themselves from said petition, whilst 27% would be prepared to participate.

It being a democracy, the 27% are entitled to go ahead if they so choose, however it is vital to understand these results are being supplied to various media organisations and the club as stated in the initial post.

On that basis petitioners should be cautioned to not suggest that they are representative of the Carlton community.

I wish you all luck and trust that we are not perceived as the club being divided. The opposition and the media will just love that.

_________________
2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

The stats tell me 100% of pollers say yes. Both questions require yes responses unless you then take into account of the forum members who didn't vote and count them as No votes, but then you have to know whether they say no to both questions or one question which means if you say no to one question is that a yes to the other question

_________________
Mjonc signing off at 8888

I think it's quite obvious, in a plain interpretation of the poll, that participating means signing the petition or agreeing with the petition if indeed you can never place yourself in a position to sign it.

The "debating" about the validity of the poll was more of a diversion tactic from discussing the intent behind the petition that the poll was questioning.

Was struggling to put it that eloquently verbs, cheers.

So yeah, my interpretation was should we be having the petition, or should we not be having the petition, not whether or not we want Pagan gone.

I meant what you two just said, I think.

_________________
2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

yeah right....

so now we have our answers for the poll.... AHHH..... we make a guess at a couple of things it might mean, and deduce therefore that 70-odd% of people don't agree with Cammo's contention.... right?

I just find it funny that we're discussing the appropriateness of a petition by demonstrating the uglier side of Market Research (ie, poorly constructed polls)

_________________
Love Cricket? Love me

"Pago pago" is possibly the stupidest term ever.

Ranks up there with "nuff nuff" and "sooky la-la"

_________________
"The Wigg's big in 08!" - Chris Judd