Come on, admit it. It's you isn't it John?

John,

Lets not forget that my interests are the same as yours. Secondly was Carlton $7 Million in debt when Elliot left? No they weren't. Was it a good idea putting Collins - a man with a vested interest in Telstra Dome at the helm of the Carlton Football Club? No it wasn't.
Since Elliott left, Carlton has fallen into even more debt, managed to finish on the bottom of the ladder twice and move all home games away from Princess Park.
Now forgive me for not showing more empathy for your arguement but I'm just seeing a club be manipulated and prostituted to suit the interests of certain individuals - not the club itself. Elliott always had the club first. And even today with having been publicly embarressed and blamed for the down fall he still holds them closest to his heart. Mind you.... We both know that although a lot of the blame should be pointed in his direction, Elliott doesn't warrant all of it.

You actually believe that?

It was said as recent as two weeks ago on the footy show when Sam Newman brought it up.

So it IS you John!

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/11/1034222595641.html

Pretty sure the first wooden spoon was firmly on the shoulders of, and leadership of John Elliott.

Pretty sure that this came off the back of Pres directives to keep trading for players from other Clubs. 'We dont rebuild at Carlton'.

Pretty sure that the debt was far greater than $7m when he left - dont try to argue its not CFC debt just because it was against those miraculous stands that John built.

Pretty sure cinque you're either a professional shit stirrer or a naive moron.

M

ps can someone check up if cinque means 'elliott' or 'bankrupt' in a foreign language?

If this is the case.... Why has Sam Newman said the exact opposite on national television. Without calling someone and asking.... It wasn't just Sam. Gary also agreed. How could it be cost effective to move all home games away from Princess Park? I mean I can understand the blockbusters, but all of them.... Why? Around that time John Elliott was in the middle of negotiations to have an underground carpark built and the whole faciltity re vamped. It was going to be used in conjunction with Melbourne University and the Carlton Football Club. That article was written at a time when Elliott was on his knees. The only way to know the finances of the club at the end of Elliotts reign would be to go and look at their financials. I mean Collins was onside with Elliott the whole time. Then he changed to get the games moved.

Look I haven't got all the facts. I really don't. But from what I've read and heard our debt has gotten worse. Not better. Now I'd love to have something in writing that proves for certain that I'm wrong. I want Carlton to succeed - not die. I can say with some degree of confidence that I once upon a time looked at John Elliott the same way most people do today. When I read his autobiography I changed my views. Plus it was a great read.

Did you read nightcrawler's thread?

Understand that Elliott is largely responsible for our financial and onfield mess. That is not just my opinion but the opinion of the vast majority of football watchers, Carlton fans or not. Understand that Elliott left the Club in an absolute mess.

Do you get a cut from sales of Elliott's book?

No I don't get a cut. And like I said in the first Email.... I'm not the only one who wouldn't mind seeing Elliott back at the helm. Have you read the book?

Cinque, have a read of the article nightcrawler posted a link to http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 95641.html

Do you actually believe that every single cent of our debt (and then some, considering you probably believe we were actually over-turning a healthy flow of profit at the time), is the fault of Collins and the current Carlton board? Do you believe Collins offered his services to the club for FOUR YEARS, when his sole goal was to make the club shift three quarters of its home games to the Dome, while running the club into the ground at the time?

I haven't got all the facts either, and I didn't mean to claim I did.. but surely it's possible that maybe, just maybe, the club was in far worse shape than Elliott allowed everyone to believe at the time.



By the way, yes I have read Elliott's book.

No, but I stopped reading fantasy novels as a child.

Look, you may be serious in what you're trying to say - however unlikely I find that notion - but it is very offensive for anyone to be singing the praises for what Elliott may have wanted to do with OO / PP / the Club, when all we are left with is the extreme mess of what he actually DID do. Salary cap penalties, massive debts, a woeful list of VFL players and 32 year olds....I'd much prefer it if you kept these views to your 2 good buddies who actually seem to share this viewpoint.

If you're here to drum up support or sympathy you're barking up the wrong tree.

With what? Around that time John Elliot couldn't even afford to pay the rent on the scoreboard at PP.

Clinque - please stop saying "Princess Park"

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#DonTheStash

Look in all honesty I never intended to make this heated arguement. More an civilised discussion. If the book the I read is more fact than fiction then it almost seems as if Elliot was good for the club. I think its easy for people to shoot him down when hes already there. I chose to take everything I've read into consideration before I make an opinion. Obviously you have taken what you've read and heard into consideration and made your opinions. I feel compelled to say that I love the club and I have renewed my membership every year regardless of their on feild performaces. You could be right and if so then I'm all for a new and improved president. But I strongly believe that Collins was not a postitve and we're better off without him. Don't you think we'd make more money if our smaller home games were played at Princess Park. In the end all that matter is that Carlton does well both on and off field. For the record I've never met Elliott and I have no comission coming from him.

Well that would depend on what our arrangement is with TD, wouldn't it, but why would you maintain a home ground that you only play 2-3 home games at? It's completely uneconomical.

Even at our "small" home games, we should be aiming to get more people through the gates than PP holds. How can you expect to have 35,000 members when your home ground won't hold that many? ... let alone any opposition or neutral fans who might want to come (which is who you actually make your money off).

He manufactured profits by not depreciating the value of the clubs assets to their true value. His business practises have been questioned by people he's worked with, the ACCC and the courts.

If you choose to believe Eliotts version of events then that's your preogative, but you might want to look at the evidence and findings of the independant reviews into his business conduct.

So John Elliott aside then.... Do you think it was the right decission to move from the then Optus Oval? And I'll look more into the allergations and findings.

FFS can we look to the future pleeeaaase!

Elliott, Collo, debt, etc., etc., is behind us ...let's move on hey!

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There's so much I could say...

Absolutely.

Make sure you read the bit where JE is not legally allowed to sit on the board of company any more after repeatedly being dragged before ASIC and the courts over his sketchy business practices.