Sinking Blues seek AFL rescue:The Age

fevolaaaa · **Posted:** Wed May 17, 2006 9:27 am

mjonc wrote:

Sell MC Hammer oval full stop and relocate out west. In Truganina is a private school called Westbourne Grammer which so happens to be across the road from house :-D

.

My sincere apologies :roll:

buzzaaaah · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:31 am **Posts:** 17893

Kaptain Kouta wrote:

sticksaftersiren87 wrote:

now we play at a $340 million indoor stadium which is one of the best in the world.

Agree with everything you wrote, except this bit, SAS87.

TelstraDome is a pile of crap.

It was compromised from the very beginning, due to the competing demands of the AFL and channel 7. Once the stadium was re-thought to include AFL matches (It was originally made for soccer and Rugby League/Union), the roof should have been totally re-designed to remove the problems which have happened with the playing surface due to the lack of sunlight, and shadowing due to the roof shape being incompatible with an oval playing area.

Who cares about the playing surface really. Thats for the players to worry about. TD is a great venue for the spectator. Good views all round the ground and good amenities. No worries about the weather. Good access by car an trains. Its a great stadium

Jarusa · **Joined:** Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am **Posts:** 23123

buzzaaaah wrote:

Kaptain Kouta wrote:

sticksaftersiren87 wrote:

now we play at a $340 million indoor stadium which is one of the best in the world.

Agree with everything you wrote, except this bit, SAS87.

TelstraDome is a pile of crap.

It was compromised from the very beginning, due to the competing demands of the AFL and channel 7. Once the stadium was re-thought to include AFL matches (It was originally made for soccer and Rugby League/Union), the roof should have been totally re-designed to remove the problems which have happened with the playing surface due to the lack of sunlight, and shadowing due to the roof shape being incompatible with an oval playing area.

Who cares about the playing surface really. Thats for the players to worry about. TD is a great venue for the spectator. Good views all round the ground and good amenities. No worries about the weather. Good access by car an trains. Its a great stadium

Agreed.

I quite like TD now.

Just watch the MCG now, there are significant parts of that ground that get little or no sun now due to the new grandstand. I reckon we will see the surface of the MCG deteriorate in coming years. The game will switch to articifial turf soon enough anyway though.

buzzaaaah · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:31 am **Posts:** 17893

Anyway, Team AFL (Evans , Demetriou etc) are in a breakfast meeting with Carlton at MCL Park that should be finished soon to hear the Blues proposal. An answer is not expected today.

In a way we are lucky it is the Commission deciding and not the old board of the club presidents.

In a business sense, The AFL needs to stop the rot while the value of one of their most important clubs is being defaced in public. It is in the AFLs business interest to help Carlto resume thir status as a power. The longer this crap goes on, they are just devaluing their own brand

Sydney Blue · **Posted:** Wed May 17, 2006 11:25 am

Jarusa wrote:

buzzaaaah wrote:

Kaptain Kouta wrote:

sticksaftersiren87 wrote:

now we play at a $340 million indoor stadium which is one of the best in the world.

Agree with everything you wrote, except this bit, SAS87.

TelstraDome is a pile of crap.

It was compromised from the very beginning, due to the competing demands of the AFL and channel 7. Once the stadium was re-thought to include AFL matches (It was originally made for soccer and Rugby League/Union), the roof should have been totally re-designed to remove the problems which have happened with the playing surface due to the lack of sunlight, and shadowing due to the roof shape being incompatible with an oval playing area.

Who cares about the playing surface really. Thats for the players to worry about. TD is a great venue for the spectator. Good views all round the ground and good amenities. No worries about the weather. Good access by car an trains. Its a great stadium

Agreed.

I quite like TD now.

Just watch the MCG now, there are significant parts of that ground that get little or no sun now due to the new grandstand. I reckon we will see the surface of the MCG deteriorate in coming years. The game will switch to articifial turf soon enough anyway though.

Do you get sun in Melbourne :lol:

nightcrawler · **Joined:** Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:48 am **Posts:** 2891

So out pitch is in half an hour. Do you think there will be a decision made today or will the AFL need to go off and think about it?

steve · **Posted:** Wed May 17, 2006 11:36 am

I can't see a decision being made today.Even if the AFL were pre-disposed to help us, with the sort of money being talked about they have to look like they are following a structured process and not just throwing money at a struggling club.

I don't think the AFL wants to create a precendent here, otherwise it will be expected to help all struggling Victorian clubs and hence will never be able to 'persuade' another Victorian club to relocate.

bluechucky · **Joined:** Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:29 am **Posts:** 13689

fevolaaaa wrote:

mjonc wrote:

Sell MC Hammer oval full stop and relocate out west. In Truganina is a private school called Westbourne Grammer which so happens to be across the road from house :-D

.

My sincere apologies :roll:

Whats that supposed to mean?

Lurker Blue · **Posted:** Wed May 17, 2006 12:08 pm

blueslander wrote:

No, I think what he is referring too is the deal that is listed in the Age article, where we will seek 10 million from the league and that the league will take over the lease of Princess Park.

We don't own it so we can't sell it.

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... hp?t=10267

I don't know how she'd feel about it.

I think were undervaluing her.

nightcrawler · **Joined:** Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:48 am **Posts:** 2891

steve wrote:

I can't see a decision being made today.Even if the AFL were pre-disposed to help us, with the sort of money being talked about they have to look like they are following a structured process and not just throwing money at a struggling club.

True but the AFL is supposed to have already done due dilligence on the proposal to take over the lease of MC Labour park. This isn't the first time they've heard about it, and they should know one way or the other what their position is on it.

Still, time will tell I guess.

marciblue · **Posted:** Wed May 17, 2006 1:00 pm

buzzaaaah wrote:

In a business sense, The AFL needs to stop the rot while the value of one of their most important clubs is being defaced in public. It is in the AFLs business interest to help Carlto resume thir status as a power. The longer this crap goes on, they are just devaluing their own brand

spot on buzzaaah

It is the devaluing of the brand that is the biggest concern for the AFL. Not only does it affect our chances of acquiring corporate and sponsorship dollars but it also damages the AFL brand as a whole by having poorly performing, under-competitive clubs in the comp long term. Patrons don't go, people wont tune into the box and it snowballs from there.

We are now starting to see the damage of our persistent poor performance - membership down, attendances down considerably, level of corporate and sponsor dollars down. The crowd for the game against the scum was the lowest in 14 years!

It is this type of decay that sets in with prolonged mediocrity. Our supporters and members fired up post Black Friday as a show of solidarity in the face of the AFL's brutality but that type of motivation soon runs out and Carlton people, after 5 years, have had enough of how sh!t we have become. The on-field stuff has exasperated an already perilous situation.

The AFL were short-sighted and prejudiced when they dispensed those penalties and were negligent in their duties in that they have essentially driven a foundation club to bankruptcy (under Corporate Law we already are!). They were unable to take into consideration the precarious state we were in at the time and denied us the opportunity to benefit from the only chance to improve our most important asset - our players. They were gripped by their obsession to bring JE down.

I know there are numerous other reasons for our poor state but being able to build a competitive team and show everyone involved at the club that we will climb out of the doldrums (in a reasonable timeframe!) is what clubs have to display. 2-3 years is the limit of poor performance. 5-7 years is a death sentence as we are attesting to.

For me the debts and poor revenue are important issues but to me we desperately need our team to someday show that it is capable of competing and pushing for finals and flags. That is what footy is all about. That is the basic urge and motivation for all footy lovers.

I expect that AFL to help because I believe internally they know they F#&KED UP big time in 2002 and took their penalties WAY too far. They see now that the penalties were excessive and indirectly to the detriment of the competition as a whole. And whilst I agree that Smorgan shouldn't perhaps be indicating that maybe we should get a pre-1st round PP if we manage 4 wins or less but I think that mentioning this reinforces the notion that the penalties were unjustified and excessive so I don't mind that plea to be out there and under consideration by the AFL

A very important time for our beloved club

Elwood Blues1 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am **Posts:** 4827

marciblue wrote:

buzzaaaah wrote:

In a business sense, The AFL needs to stop the rot while the value of one of their most important clubs is being defaced in public. It is in the AFLs business interest to help Carlto resume thir status as a power. The longer this crap goes on, they are just devaluing their own brand

spot on buzzaaah

It is the devaluing of the brand that is the biggest concern for the AFL. Not only does it affect our chances of acquiring corporate and sponsorship dollars but it also damages the AFL brand as a whole by having poorly performing, under-competitive clubs in the comp long term. Patrons don't go, people wont tune into the box and it snowballs from there.

We are now starting to see the damage of our persistent poor performance - membership down, attendances down considerably, level of corporate and sponsor dollars down. The crowd for the game against the scum was the lowest in 14 years!

It is this type of decay that sets in with prolonged mediocrity. Our supporters and members fired up post Black Friday as a show of solidarity in the face of the AFL's brutality but that type of motivation soon runs out and Carlton people, after 5 years, have had enough of how sh!t we have become. The on-field stuff has exasperated an already perilous situation.

The AFL were short-sighted and prejudiced when they dispensed those penalties and were negligent in their duties in that they have essentially driven a foundation club to bankruptcy (under Corporate Law we already are!). They were unable to take into consideration the precarious state we were in at the time and denied us the opportunity to benefit from the only chance to improve our most important asset - our players. They were gripped by their obsession to bring JE down.

I know there are numerous other reasons for our poor state but being able to build a competitive team and show everyone involved at the club that we will climb out of the doldrums (in a reasonable timeframe!) is what clubs have to display. 2-3 years is the limit of poor performance. 5-7 years is a death sentence as we are attesting to.

For me the debts and poor revenue are important issues but to me we desperately need our team to someday show that it is capable of competing and pushing for finals and flags. That is what footy is all about. That is the basic urge and motivation for all footy lovers.

I expect that AFL to help because I believe internally they know they F#&KED UP big time in 2002 and took their penalties WAY too far. They see now that the penalties were excessive and indirectly to the detriment of the competition as a whole. And whilst I agree that Smorgan shouldn't perhaps be indicating that maybe we should get a pre-1st round PP if we manage 4 wins or less but I think that mentioning this reinforces the notion that the penalties were unjustified and excessive so I don't mind that plea to be out there and under consideration by the AFL

A very important time for our beloved club

I would say the AFL are more interested in the brand name of the South Port Roos or the West Sydney Blues than Carlton....they already have two basket case clubs they are propping up without getting a third one on the books.... and are twsiting the Roos arm to play out of the Gold Coast.

Once you join the charity line the brand name becomes nothing....Fitzroy and the Swans could tell you about that....and the Roos are about to sell out the brand name in the name of survival...

Humpers · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:28 pm **Posts:** 4961

marciblue wrote:

buzzaaaah wrote:

In a business sense, The AFL needs to stop the rot while the value of one of their most important clubs is being defaced in public. It is in the AFLs business interest to help Carlto resume thir status as a power. The longer this crap goes on, they are just devaluing their own brand

spot on buzzaaah

It is the devaluing of the brand that is the biggest concern for the AFL. Not only does it affect our chances of acquiring corporate and sponsorship dollars but it also damages the AFL brand as a whole by having poorly performing, under-competitive clubs in the comp long term. Patrons don't go, people wont tune into the box and it snowballs from there.

We are now starting to see the damage of our persistent poor performance - membership down, attendances down considerably, level of corporate and sponsor dollars down. The crowd for the game against the scum was the lowest in 14 years!

It is this type of decay that sets in with prolonged mediocrity. Our supporters and members fired up post Black Friday as a show of solidarity in the face of the AFL's brutality but that type of motivation soon runs out and Carlton people, after 5 years, have had enough of how sh!t we have become. The on-field stuff has exasperated an already perilous situation.

The AFL were short-sighted and prejudiced when they dispensed those penalties and were negligent in their duties in that they have essentially driven a foundation club to bankruptcy (under Corporate Law we already are!). They were unable to take into consideration the precarious state we were in at the time and denied us the opportunity to benefit from the only chance to improve our most important asset - our players. They were gripped by their obsession to bring JE down.

I know there are numerous other reasons for our poor state but being able to build a competitive team and show everyone involved at the club that we will climb out of the doldrums (in a reasonable timeframe!) is what clubs have to display. 2-3 years is the limit of poor performance. 5-7 years is a death sentence as we are attesting to.

For me the debts and poor revenue are important issues but to me we desperately need our team to someday show that it is capable of competing and pushing for finals and flags. That is what footy is all about. That is the basic urge and motivation for all footy lovers.

I expect that AFL to help because I believe internally they know they F#&KED UP big time in 2002 and took their penalties WAY too far. They see now that the penalties were excessive and indirectly to the detriment of the competition as a whole. And whilst I agree that Smorgan shouldn't perhaps be indicating that maybe we should get a pre-1st round PP if we manage 4 wins or less but I think that mentioning this reinforces the notion that the penalties were unjustified and excessive so I don't mind that plea to be out there and under consideration by the AFL

A very important time for our beloved club

Even though the AFL penalties were clearly too harsh, I don't believe that they are the main reason why we have been so crap for nearly 5 years. It is more due to the recruiting from 1995-2001. Remember that Goddard has turned out to be an average player and we got Stevens for nothing!

This meeting with the AFL and our on field performances in 2007 and beyond are very important for the future of this club.

BrizzyBlue · **Posted:** Wed May 17, 2006 1:46 pm

Update on Meeting: No outcome at this stage:

http://carltonfc.com.au/default.asp?pg=home

Speakers · **Joined:** Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:19 pm **Posts:** 1105

Remember, we did the crime so we are doing the time. We also traded away picks that could have netted us players like Chapman. So we have made many big blunders, with the re-signing of Pagan for 3 more years the most recent big blunder.

marciblue · **Posted:** Wed May 17, 2006 2:06 pm

Speakers, perhaps a different punishment could've been handed out. One that didn't compromise the very existence of the club.

Perhaps deducting premiership points the following year. A hefty penalty but one that impacted on one year, not years or a decade ahead. And whilst some of the players may or may not have made a difference, it compromised our approach to recruiting players and has prolonged our poor performance. Instead of moulding a young side and building it up we were forced to look at stop gap measure for short term relief and we are still paying for the consequences of the consequences from the penalty, if you know what I mean!

I think it is quite straight forward that whilst we are so crap on field the other areas wont improve. It drains the club.

A club can deteriorate when it is flying (and we are prime example of that) but it can never improve while it is pathetic on field

Rod Waddell · **Joined:** Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am **Posts:** 1651

Let's not ask for assistance but request an annual maintenance fee from the AFL. We can justify this because the AFL sanctions games there - u18's, etc. The fee should be $1m reducing to $500,000 over 10 years.

BrizzyBlue · **Posted:** Wed May 17, 2006 3:02 pm

Further report, this one from Fox News: Some positivity from the Spew:

http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,86 ... 10,00.html

mjonc · **Posted:** Wed May 17, 2006 3:03 pm

The below article mentions that Malouf and Andy D has dinner last night in preparation for today's meeting. Yet nothing has been announced RE progress or further meetings in the other articles listed in this thread.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/ ... 22,00.html

Kouta · **Posted:** Wed May 17, 2006 3:55 pm

marciblue wrote:

Speakers, perhaps a different punishment could've been handed out. One that didn't compromise the very existence of the club.

Perhaps deducting premiership points the following year. A hefty penalty but one that impacted on one year, not years or a decade ahead. And whilst some of the players may or may not have made a difference, it compromised our approach to recruiting players and has prolonged our poor performance. Instead of moulding a young side and building it up we were forced to look at stop gap measure for short term relief and we are still paying for the consequences of the consequences from the penalty, if you know what I mean!

We finished second last the following year (2003) so I would have been all for them doing that! :wink:

Should we be scared that AD is now our best friend?

E tu, Brutus?

Sinking Blues seek AFL rescue:The Age

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