yeah molesy....to some extent, we tend to do it from the very first bounce.....Boring Boring Boring.....If I wanted to see the grass grow i will stay at home.....hence why our numbers have dropped off....

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Blueboy forever

SEN are about to interview him, anyone near a radio? I had to switch off for work reasons

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

utter crap

there are individuals in the world that have made a million dollars for themselves before they are 20

age has nothing to do with anything, sure life experience is invaluable, but that doesnt mean a 20 year old doenst know what he is doing.

im not saying that cammo is a business freak

however, the standard line at the moment, seems to be attacking his age and to try and undermine him simply becuase he is 20.

bullshit - ive been working since i was 15, started working for the current company i am when i was 19, and just about was running things by the time i was 22.

age has nothing to do with anything and is a weak argument.

you can not judge a person by his age simply becuase you dont agree with him.

Its as good as the old "becuase" argument.

Cammo is full of shit becuase he is 20 and that is the bases of your argument, utter flower crap.

and dont worry - SEN cant get hold of him

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

Getting back to the main topic which is DP, I can appreciate that on occasions when we are that bad and football is becoming a chore to go to that I do think we should get rid of him.

However it seems that we are not in a position to do so at the moment, if he loses the playing groups support though I would seriously look at our options at the end of the year.

Having said that if we can beat the aints on the Sunday all will be forgiven (almost)

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

I dont see him giving advice.
He's offering a vehicle for disgruntled members to voice their concerns.



We should be "honoured" should we?
I'd suggest Denis is honoured to be paid 600k per year to coach our club.
As for affecting individuals, for 600k a year, I'm sure Denis can handle the heat.



What a load of crap.
Be sheep and share my view or we dont want you.
Absolute nonsense.

I dont believe Denis has been a quality coach to date.
That doesnt make me less a valued supporter or member than you.



Of course if a 20 year old Uni student started a petition to keep Denis, I'd suggest you wouldnt be so judgemental.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Prez,

Thank-you. You have just proved my point.

And by the way, how many millionaire twenty year olds do you know of. Whilst they exist, they are pretty sparse on the ground & they tend to be IT experts, rather than business leaders.

I think that you'll also find those millionaire 20year olds still learn plenty as they get older and can probably bring a better perspective to their business and the world as they age.

To measure anyone or their success simply on how much money they have accumulated is a very shallow view of life

Age has plenty to do with it. The younger a person is the less life experience that they have - in general they haven't experienced the ups & downs of adult life in order to allow them to provide a balanced view of a situation.

Glad you have been with the same employer for 9 years, are you now running the business of your current employer? If not, what have you been doing for the last 7 years

regards
Ockham

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

Prez,

Have a look at what you're saying.... I base my opinions of fact. Life even. This twenty year old who could be worth millions still doesn't have what it takes to tell a sixty year old that he can't do his job well enough or a board or multi millionaires that they have no idea. Mate I'm twenty four with a staff of twenty four. Don't piss in my ear and tell me its raining. I do what I know and I do a good job of it. I in recent years have put decent runs on the board and I don't begin to believe that I know what pressure Denis Pagan could be under. This guy - sorry kid is acting just like one. His age wouldn't have been brought up had he acted like an adult. The people who act on impluse are generally the younger ones. Me included - and I've achieved things. Don't tell me that you really belive that Cammo can and will be taken seriously by anyone. If he had half an adult brain he'd think about the repercussions of his actions before he went and added fuel to the Carlton fire. He has made matters worse. And anyway you look at it his age has a huge influence on his decisions - just like they do with yours and mine.

you see, this is where i disagree.

my opinion on it all.

pagan needs to go and there is no point waiting.

give mitchell a shot for the rest of the year for these reasons

1. to prove himself
2. if the club wants to get someone else they give themselves plenty of time to get the right person.


i dont want a 2 week scramble at the end of the year to get what is available, i want a coach that is the perfect mould for us.

you can agree or disagree with cammo, i dont really give a shit, he lost me after the Richmond game and even though we beat Essendon* i still think Pagan is not the coach for our club at the moment.

yes he has the runs on the board, but Pagan, like Sheedy is past the game and there is nothing wrong with that, both are hitting the 60 mark and both have had wonderful careers.

i want someone young, someone that can be the face of the club, someone that is good for the club and someone that represents the club

IMO - Pagan is none of these things.

Pagan just about treats the media with contempt unlike others that embrace the media i.e. Daniher from Melbourne being the perfect example of how a coach needs to be.

Pagan IMO is past it tactically - Adelaide has just about the same list as did 2 years ago before Craig came into the job, and now they are considered top flight talent where as, under Aryes there where not - Craig himself has improved the playing list with the way he coaches without introducing very little talent - Pagan has not

Pagan plays the kids wrong IMO - Clarkson has it spot on, Dawson being the example. Yes he has been beaten and has been up against some serious talent, but Clarkson has also had the faith in Dawson to learn from the experience.

Pagan is too negative - Too many times this year we have lost games purely to reactionary moves from Pagan shitting himself and not having the faith in his players to fullfill a game plan - prime example against Richmond. We are leading the game 4 goals to 2, and moves Whitnall who was dominated but also had Bowden on him, onto Richo - thus losing us the game in that one move. Would Roos make such a move? I dont think so.

No, the game has passed him, and there is no shame in that.

We are about to rekindle our flame with continued improvment from the kids, lets get a young, hungry coach and really push forward in a new direction.

Pagan is not what we need.

Keeping him becuase we cant afford to get rid of him will cost us more than getting rid of him now and bringing someone young, with fresh ideas, and new hopes.

Now, anyone that thinks im less of a supporter for posting such things, call me what you want, but make sure you introduce yourself to me at a game, there are many here that no what i look like and can point me out to you.

i dont bite .... much

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

Everyone has their own opinion, no one is going to agree with what anyone else has to say, so no one really needs to post at all if no ones mind can be changed.

Blue Vain,

Every supporters oppinion is valuable. But when those same oppinions and actions compromise the very existence of the club especially in its vunerable position, then its best you go to another club. Simple. No problems in telling people how you may be frustrated about something, but don't cut your nose to spite your face.

One hand says you can't attack Cammo for his age .... yet the other hand says that Pagan must go because of his age...
...hmmm

in response to ockhams and cinque

i never, really ran the company as it was a Family Business, i was just the one that made it work, I dont do that anymore as i dont want too, it got to the point i was doing far too much work for little reward, now im doing less work for far more reward as im just doing the role of a senior draftsperson. but i still work my ass off, you have to when you are the sole draftsperson in an office that has been involved in massive multi million dollar contracts.

Do i think i could run a football club - no idea, but all through my life i have always risen to the top and always done well. And that consists of starting at Safeway at 15 and being promoted to 2ic (2nd behind department manager) even though i was part time and still at school, being made the No 1 teller for the bank after 3 months work and ahead of people that have been there longer than i and now with my current place of employment where i was thrown to the wolves, to learn or fail and i did and have been employed for 9 years now with the same company and have had several companies try and "poach" me.

I use those examples (and they are all real i assure you) to show you, that age has nothing to do with advancement - if you are capable and have the want and the mental fortitude to do something - you will, be that, 18, 28 or 58. To suggest that someone that is 20 couldnt do as good a job as someone that is 60 is stupid. What is to say the 20 year old couldnt introduce better techniques using newer technologies that the 60 year old isnt even aware of and make a success of it. nothing. to dismiss somone becuase of age, is as stupid as dismissing someone becuase of what color skin they have.

Anyways, what cammo is doing has nothing to do with running the football club. He is simply using a form of protest to inform the board that supporters arent happy with the way the coach is headed.

And for me, i dont see his age as a valid reaosn to dismiss his argument.

DO i want pagan out, yes i do, for reasons stated earlier, will i sign cammo's partition - no as i dont get involved in that type of thing (for what its worth i also new the lads that started the sackmerrick.com website last year that had the some run of press and i think both will have the same result, nothing.

but that doesnt mean you can dismiss him or his opinion simply becuase he is 20, you may not be wanting to come across that way, but your constant reference to his age and his "life experience" suggests that is what you are doing.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

Great posts everybody....it is very enlightening.

What about back to fundametals of footy. If we win games all this shit disappears.

The 3 basics of footy are 1. We have it. 2. They have it. 3 The ball is in dispute and no-one has it.

Now Carlton lead the competition in clearances ( That means we have it)
The are right up there in Hard Ball Gets ( That means we have it again) and they are right up there in uncontested marks ( Means we still have it).

yet we lose game after F*&@ing game because we turn it over with poor skill. Now Pagan is responsible for skill development. He appoints the staff, he choses recruits and he is responsible for the game plan. Can someone explain to me why we turn it over so many times with skill errors and this has been going on for 3 years. And by the way PLEASE dont pull out the old chesnut of them just being kids. JUDD is a kid, Ball is a kid (in relative terms) and so is Dale Thomas. Why didnt we recruit kids that can dispose of the thing. That has to come back to Pagan

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Go BLues

fair point, but my gripe with pagan isnt his age, its that the game is past him.

IMO i think he is coaching for his career, and not for the club nor its players.

i shouldnt have mentioned his age.

i referred to his age, but shouldnt have.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

Damn you!

man i got to get used to these one response posts



everything i write is a flower book

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

It's OK...it'll come with age

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#DonTheStash

John Elliott would still be our President if that was the case.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.