Neither do I. I was referring to 4thchicken.


That's pretty gutsy, 10 senior listed players gone. I'd promote Flint as of right now, and Batson may have done enough by the end of the year, even if he isn't ready to play AFL to earn promotion.

If they feel Aisake or Jackson were ready to see AFL footy in 2007, then that's three right there.

6 players in the main draft is huge. The draft after this is supposedly another good one so maybe we wouldn't go so deep, but saying goodbye to over a quarter of your senior list is no chicken-shit move.

Let me get this right here,we are going to get rid of upwards of 14 players?

Given that we have limited currency might i suggest that we have little to offer in trade?

Therefore that leaves us the draft, our own choices would probably cap out at 5/6 and maybe a couple of trades,if very lucky..

Everyone that we lose has to be replaced,i cannot see how we can turn over in one year the suggested nominees.

Its going to take time and patience and a new coach!

Can i ask how come Saddington keeps getting games and Livo doesnt???

I mean what can Saddington do in the hot spot on the ground that Livo cant do???

Saddington wont put his body in... Livo could have played on G Train today... and freed up both Lance and TBird to play a role on Rievolting.. (Who by the way we ran into form today)...

I think the only thing i like about Saddington is he uses the ball ok... but hes a shocker in the guts of defence.. already he is playing like a tall.. slow flanker.

So why not play Sporn in that role???

See.... when you add average players to a team you have more average players than what you had.. but you stop developing youre own average players...


Enough of this recruiting average footballers ...!!!!

Ive heard Buchanan might be up for graps at the end of the year.. is he average or could he add something???

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Difference between lance and Fev is perceived X factor - comes with the obsession of atheletes and potential impact players - that is why Fev might nab the 2 first rounders in a super draft whereas lance wont. If you have a look at players in general those that do the flashy stuff are generally rated ahead of the more dour players if they have similar ability/records.

Had we structured our team and game plan more positively today we would have had more scoring shots - even if Fev had been absent we would have kicked more than 5 behinds. IF you think otherwise then you are deluded.

Fev might be the face of the club and may bring people through the gate but we WILL lose a LOT more people through membership and gate attendances if we have another season or two of such performances (not just today, but the average of the 'pagan era'). We cant afford to not continue along as we have previously.

A final point - comments such as - Id only trade Fev is he loses interest - Fev losing interest would substantially decrease his trade value - If Fev imploded next week or near the end of the year then you wouldnt get the 2 first round picks that I am after. If a club only offered a 1st round pick as a result of Fev losing the plot would you take it? I wouldnt. We would lose out on such a trade imho

The mistakes of the past need to set straight , and now is the time for the club to set it right. Yes 10 players is a lot. But CFC not winning games is not right also. The Club needs to make a point. Be a leader once more and by making "Massive Changes " this will show the football world we mean business,we want success sooner rather than later. We will not tolerate passengers.

If the club weilds the axe seriously this year, i believe in years to come this will be the pivotal point of our future success. We will sit back and say how the CFC said enough is enough. You are either good enough or out. Not lets wait and see, maybe another year and we'll see.

Now is the time and now means that Pagan has two real years to show his worth.

Players Futures determined now. Coaches future determined at the end of current contract.
If Pagan can't get something out of a List of players he is about to recruit , Or recruited and brought together, then he isn't worth keeping .

I am only prepared to put up with this for two more years. I hate Flooding i hate our game plan and i hate seeing places taken up on our team List that are either not good enough, or are not in the coaches plans.

Enough is enough... Isn't it ?

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

And what will will do with the guy who effectively doesnt have a passport???

Noone will get 2 first rounders this year... noone will get their grubby hands on a top 10 / 12 pick/.

Lance might get us a top 15/20 pick... (if were very lucky!!!)...

The club would lose a generation of kids without Fev...We are in the wilderness for the next 2 or 3 years with or without Lance...

In two years you wont get a crumpet for Red.. Fev will still be tradeable...

The smart thing is to shop Lance around end of season..

The weak thing will be to just get all conservative ...

Fev would be a disaster...

and you cant compare Fev with Lance .. because a disinterested but O.P less Fev is still worth 50/70 goals ...

A fat Lance is worth a dozen cold pies.

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Of those 14 that I listed can you name one that is capable of playing 100 games? Any of them capable of actually taking a position and making it their own? Aren't you sick of the filth that is on our list. I have been patient. This is season 4 post 2002 and we are going backwards at an alarming rate. I can't see any reason keeping those players. It probably wont happen. I'd love to see it.

The thing that cheesed me off more today were the Carlton supporters sitting next to me. The crap I heard I could have sworn I was at a Richmond game. But I can also uderstand the anger. I just don't want to be angry anymore. I want to enjoy going to the footy. Next year I don't want to see the players I nominated to be out wearing the navy blue because they are the reasons that I dont enjoy the footy. Give me fresh faces anyday. I went today with a " Feeling " we could win. It was obvious after 20 minutes we weren't going to win. Throughout the game, and I stayed till the end, I was looking for hope. Kennedy, Blackwell, Murphy = Hope. A further batch of youngsters next year = hope. That's want we want. That way I can enjoy the footy - even if we lose.

tractorboy - in terms of leadership - lance as captain, prender (only if the coach is prepared to play him)/lappin (assuming he regains form)/murphy/fisher/waite as candidates for vice captaincy. On prender we could do worse than having a 'vandenburg' type in a vice captaincy role

Jimmae - If you havent realised by now that I look deeper than just 'fits of silliness' when discussing the trading of players then you dont have much of a clue.

Speculation is a bit of a waste of time. Just draft kids who you reckon can do a job for us in the future.We need to draft a ruckman an inside onballers for starters. We need to keep Fevola and Whitnall.Saddington has shocking decision making skills.Why did we get him.

We need to delist the players mentioned already but play other guys who havent been given the opportunity.I would like to see Flint played for example.See if he can step it up if given a challenge.Dont promote guys who let us down time and time again unless there is nobody else.

we could at least trade Saddo to the bullants and bring in Livo... or ideally it could have been Bower, but that won't happen now for a while.

Look, this "list that Denis made" is pathetic. I wish we could push 15 out.... but, as 7 dom says, its pretty impossible.

But 10 isn't

10 means we have 6 picks in the National, 3 rookie promotions (Batson, Smith and any other - o'hAilpin if he can't remain on the rookie list)... and 1 PSD pick

TOO EASY

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synbad


In which case I would keep Fev - simple as that - in case you havent realised I am not looking to give Fev away. Its the exact same reason why I wouldnt take just one first round pick for lance.

If the dogs make the 2nd/3rd week of finals this year and fall short due to lack of KPP up forward you can rest assured that they will move heaven and earth to nab Fev if they know we are open to trading him. They can live without their a semi fringe/established player (ray/faulkner) and their 1st/2nd round picks this year if it means that they have a very realistic shot at the flag. It will pretty much be the last role of the dice for the dogs in the next few yrs as west, grant, darcy, etc come to the end of their careers.



If you are talking kids as in players, I disagree - as a team we can go forward without Fev.

If you are talking supporters then I put it to you that we are/have already lost a generation of kids with what we have put up since 2002/3. The longer we struggle like we have the more 'kids' that we will lose. If losing Fev meant that we could advance the teams progress by 1-2 yrs then it SHOULD be done

I would be looking 6 national draft picks, 2 PSD picks (uncontracted+an 18yo on a 1yr that has trained strongly at our club post national draft) and rookie elevation (ohailpin/flint perhaps).

There must be a glitch in the matrix...

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Losing Fev would mean youd have scored 5 points today...!!!

Losing Fev would mean when the kids coming through are running up the midfield they wouldnt have a REAL TARGET for another three or four years...

Losing Fev would mean no REAL HARDNESS from any of our big guys over the next 30 months....


Are you for real??????


Fev is the only genuine ELITE footballer we have ..!!!( apart from Lance that is....)

And NO... you still wont get a top TEN this year... maybe for a Judd or a Pavlich but not even for Fev...

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Yup. I think it will be more like 8 or 9, but I was just thinking out aloud. I could only see 10 if we got a PP this year and had 3 picks in the first 20. Then we'd pick at around 1, 17, 18, 34, 50, & 64. That's probably the only way they'd delist 10, and that's assuming that they want to promote 3 rookies, which may be a stretch as well.

I know it's gutsy, but we really need to turn over players who have been in the AFL system for over 4 years and not made an impact. Out of BAX's list I'd definately keep Carrazzo and Bentick for at least another year or two.

Good god, is any pick we get going to be better than Fev. where do we get another FF like him. People talk about going forward and we talk (and I'm not just talking about the above post here, just the post I hit "quote") about trading the leading goalkicker (Fev), probably our other best player, best leader and probable next captain (Lance) and one of our gun youngsters who is one of the best marks for his size in the competition who may really give us something over the next 6-7 years (Fisher). Yep, that's really going forward. Realistically, how do we trade/delist 12-13 players in this day and age, there's not that many picks in the draft and certainly won't improve our list directly trading players. Clubs aren't that silly. And they won't give up first round picks these days unless someone offers a Judd. Let's look to the root of the problem, the coach losing the players. You might just find some of these guys can actually play under a coach they respect. It's amazing what a bit of committment can do for the team. Wouldn't be the first side to. I won't fully judge this team until I see them play under someone else. Anything else is like shuffling the deck-chairs on the Titanic.

Tyrant, we can easily give 15 players the heave, that's the easy bit. What most people are certain of is that we would stuggle to fill those spots and remain competitive. Thing is, we aren't competitive now so what difference is it going to make ??

If it is deemed that there are 15 players that clearly aren't up to it (and that decision is made by the club's people, not the results of an internet poll etc) and they decide to clean the decks in one foul swoop, then good on them, I wouldn't be disappointed at all.

As a mate of mine in Adelaide keeps telling me, the only way we are going to get anywhere is to keep turning over the list as often and as savagely as we believe is needed. There is no use in hangin onto fringe players or those who won't make it, we don't have the room on the list to do it these days.

Sounds ruthless I know but thats footy in the year 2006, the AFL have made it that way with smaller lists.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

Did you just put Lance and Fev in the same sentence???

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10 is enough. You need to leave some for the year after. You cant draft a guy and then delist him after 1 season.

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"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Why not ?? If you grab a player via the pre-season draft, is it compulsory to give them a two-year contract ??

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS