Well the coaches were apparently involved in the open session yesterday, so these "issues" better had been addressed.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

heard fev on SEN say that there was an open and frank discussion held between players and coaches. apparently it took a while to get the ball rolling but once it did ,"a few home-truths came out". anyone know the extent of these home-truths? or indeed what sort of issues were raised?

And that's about the best reason for change I've heard.
It's about the only way we're going to get some consensus.
(Short of the season turning around and winning the flag )

Very interesting point in Pagan's favour unknowingly presented in this article.



Now in the case of Bomber, you can see that bar the last two years of his career there has been some standout teams running around the park while he's been coaching his ass off (hence all the mid-range 1st round picks).

The others, well they have a lot to answer for. And some here would prefer them over Pagan but look at the lists they get to manage in comparison.

So that makes Percy look like he to was a supercoach... What was his win loss ratiojust out of curiousity...

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

Some of the names in that list are club stalwarts from an era where their lists weren't the traditional strongholds of the competition (except maybe Bob Rose, didn't matter who coached that mob though).

Then you have guys like Gary Ayres and the guys I have mentioned bar Bomber, over the long haul, they have no excuse. Especially Terry because he's barely seen prelims let alone a grand final.

He has lost the senior group and he knows it. Two weeks ago, mid week, he called a small group of the younger players (led by Fev) together in his office. The gist of the conversation was to ask them to step up as leaders, to speak up at meetings. Some of the guys present that afternoon have played less than 30 games.

Funny thing was, the senior guys had no idea the meeting was planned nor were they told of the content. Seems to me, DP is beginning to 'split' the playing group and he is hoping to align himself with the younger core group. The senior group were quite surprised to see the younger boys file into see DP whilst they knew nothing about it.

Problem for DP is, the younger group too are questioning his motives.

Also, it's difficult to forge a strong relationship with kids when you don't actually talk to them all that much. For example, a recent debutante had no direct communication with DP for 2 months, then out of the blue, receives 'the chat' three days before making his senior debut. Everyone knew he was going to play, simply because DP had decided to 'talk to him'. If he wasn't due to play, DP wouldn't have spoken to him.

Hard to see how things will improve. Funny thing about all this is that (even today) the likes of Carey, Stevens, Archer and Co. will swear black and blue he was the best coach they ever had. On the other hand, Kouta and Co beg to differ. Strange that. Really strange.

Who is this "senior group"? Which players are we talking about?

If you say Kouta I understand. You don't see Denis and Kouta together in public much these days. Ditto Lappin. French might have an axe to grind from being dropped but that hardly seems in character for Barney.

Lance is in close to career-best form, not sure how he can be at odds with Denis, unless he thinks he should be in the forward line.

Fev, it appears is in the "yoof" camp.

Apart from Stevens, what other senior guys really count?

Personally, for mine, the sooner the younger guys step up and taking the initiative away from this Clayton's leadership group the better.

I'm not necessarily doubting you preacher but I just don't get this stuff about a old/young split at the club when we only have 2-3 guys over 28 as it is.

I posted a while back that sometimes he doesnt talk to players for months on end and some people questioned it.

The other thing is how can you possibly go forward if youre including and discluding players that are meant to be playing with you.

The whole thing is staggering when it comes to people management.

Denis doesnt have any credibility left and needs to be replaced to bring the team back to ONE.

The board has no option but to do something for the clubs sake.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

With players not getting any real feedback from the coach do you think that aids their development???

worst team in the AFL to send our kids right now...


Its time we turned things around...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

have no doubt all this is true


Sheedy was the same (still is for all I know) around 95 - 98 I knew the mother of a kid that was at Essendon*. He worked exactly the same way (is this where Denis learnt it?) ignoring the kids (until they played, and then ignoring them again when dropped) Sheeds had his core and the kids/others not in that core worked through their development with the assistant coaches - this woman's son reckons Sheeds only spoke about 3 words to him in his whole time there.

It might be bad - and maybe ten or so years later it is, the thing is out of that period, and those kids, came the 2000 flag - (sadly her son was not one of them).

None of us have the experience of coaching within the AFL environment, none of us knows what works and doesn't work in that environment - as outsiders we apply what we know from our fields of expertise and hope it fits this field. It may.

As may other things outside our scope.

One thing I do know, many, many excellent men have been brought undone within organisations because they have sought to challenge and re-direct those organizations. I fear Denis is about to join that group.

Yet we know he has had no strong leadership to help him throughout this whole damn process. Board level or Playing group level.

I have no probs with questions laid at his feet about his tactics, etc.

However I also hate the petty calls that he is just doing it for money, that he is scared or tired or doesn't care or selfish etc.

he may not be the coach we need now,

he also may be exactly the coach this club needs if it is ever to get its shit together

sadly I think he'll be scapegoated and fear the Board will gain some time standing on his carcass while some on here dance silly little jigs and vent their hate of a man who unknowingly took on probably the worst coaching job since the sad days of The Rooboys.

Yet in two years when those 'senior players' are not our core and the kids have grown and stengthened and gained experience through years and games much of the decisions of him and the football club as a whole will come home to roost as they have done in every club with a young list since football began.

You can fast track the learning/physical development/gaining of experience/maturity only so much, the rest is up to time and patience.

Perhaps a club teetering as poorly as we are has no time, cannot afford patience but that is not the blame of Denis, merely, sadly it seems, partly responsible for his undoing.

Or maybe he will survive this next year or two and the board will change and get vision and energy and an understanding of what is required and with a powerful board behind him, a youthful team gaining experience and the core group that seems to never have taken him on board gone or diminsihed, Denis will show us that he can coach.

We are in the bottom cycle, time as much as coaching, will get us out of it but if this board does not imrpove this club may not be around to see the blossoming of this side.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Quoted for truth.

Get over it, it's not our decision.

Just hurts the club more all this talk.

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Oompa loompa doompety dee
If you are wise you'll listen to me

Another meeting took place yesterday morning at 8.30am. Yes, another one. This time it included just the senior leadership group - Kouta, Stevens, Lappin, French, Lance and the coaching staff. Commenced at 8.30am - finished at 11.00am. Training was scheduled for mid morning. Everyone was waiting for senior leadership group and DP to reappear before training could commence. Was suppposed to be a 1 hour meeting. Ha!

The leadership group spoke up. Frank, honest and to the point. Fireworks at times. Not sure if the coaching staff were pleased to be on the receiving end. Cards were laid on the table.

Interesting to see where to from here. Sounds like we need to call in a marriage counsellor!

Last week it was Mr and Mrs McCartney, then Mr and Mrs Norman and now ........................so what does one do when a marriage/partnership becomes so strained?

One of your best non-poetic posts for sometime Dannyboy.


But I will do "60 Minutes" and selectively edit this quote from your monologue and say I heartily agree with what you say.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

French is in the senior leadership group & was at that meeting but hasn't played for the last 2 weeks?

Best thing to happen at the club for a long time.

Hopefully all the leadership group had the balls to give an honest viewpoint and not leave it to one or two.

Its no good "home truths" being delivered if they only go one way.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

wonder if this relationship between Pagan and these boys can ever be put right. Sometimes I feel like this club has been chasing its own tail for four years.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

But Stevens and Fev were strongly behind Denis wernt they?????

I read in the newspaper they were....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Why is it so hard for people to discuss differences? If the boys had of done this a few weeks ago, then we may not be sitting 2-6 on the table right now.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

Forget 3 weeks ago, try 4 years ago.

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NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.