You're big on statistical analysis but lacking in basic comprehension skills Jar.

BTW, Jarrad Waite had never played a game? Nor has Jake Edwards or Adam Hartlett or Anthony Raso.
It's called development.
You know, that thing we've been trying to describe to you?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Just matching spin with spin BV and you have been spinning like crazy the last few weeks.

Houlihan was on the chopping block, you know that, he might have scraped through in 2003 but it was not looking good.

Tell me all about player development BV, I would love to know how you define it, how many major types there are and how they apply to particular types of players. Come on I need to be educated.

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Jim - agree very few win that many games in 6th position - might sugggest that the bottom half of the competition was very poor i.e weaker overall competition!

BV!! You keep deleting your posts.

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Yes.

Mick Martyn, Glen Bowyer, David Clarke, Ricky Mott, Steven Kenna.
Pagan wanting to get rid of Fevola last year.

I see your point.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Cant you keep up Jars?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

We don't have to play the bottom half in the finals. The top half though makes for one competitive finals series. Especially when the 5th side is the reigning premiers and the 6th side is the team of the 90's, North Melbourne, who went on to win the flag the next year. The 2nd side was Geelong, who were about to play their 4th GF in 7 years, as well as Essendon*.

Jim - this is becoming a fascinating 'side' debate......how good were the bears who scrapped into 8th position (barely won 11 games) and went very very close to beating us (9 points i think)?

it is a subjective discussion. I understand your logic and don't disagree too much with it - although there is a balanced story. i.e the top half of the competition was strong - but the overall competition was seemingly weaker - which does have an impact on the shape.

did nick say 95 was a crap side? or was he just trying to place some perspective on events that year?

isn't he really just saying, in a perhaps ungainly way, that everyone involved got a bit too carried away with things and did a very un-carlton thing ... get all warm and fuzzy and comfortable with their lot.

i don't think nick has actually said that pagan is da man as such ...

my reading of his comments is that he was asked by the club to come out and appeal for unity or back pagan or whatever. the fact that he spends virtually the whole article in presenting a history lesson (which is largely on the money) tells me that perhaps his heart wasn't really in it. i don't think he necessarily considers pagan the answer, but can or is trying to understand the circumstances, just like a lot of us did (me included)

i'm now firmly in the "pagan has to go" camp, BUT parkin's performance post 95 must be viewed independently of whether you want pagan or not. you can't create this simplistic dichotomy: "i hate pagan therefore i love parkin" or vice versa.

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... an eagle flew out of the night. he was something to observe, came in close i heard a voice, bending stretching every nerve, had to listen had no choice ...

maxyblue just because u dont think pagan should be our coach i dont think you should try to deny big nick's incentives and make it out to look like he's been forced to say he backs pagan i dont mean 2 have a go at ya but ur unconsiously tryin 2 change the meaning to suit urself

The Bears won about 7 of their last 8 to get in. The only to side beat them over the last 2 months was Carlton, by 14 points at Optus and 13 points in the final. They kicked out Melbourne, previous years Preliminary Finalist, in the last match by beating them at the Gabba. Melbourne's loss opened the finals up for a very competitve Collingwood but they lost to 11th placed Swans (who inflicted one of Carlton's 2 losses that year by 72 points), Grand Finalists the next year, in the last match in Sydney. Those 3 sides played highly competitive footy all year. Given the Crows, 1993 preliminary finalists, were 12th, it was actually one of the really stronger years all round in regards to the competition, although everyone got to beat out on Fitzroy. Way stronger than it is now. I like the Swans but let's face it, it wasn't one of those strong years last year. Carlton not only obliterated North in the PF by 62 points but only "pulling the pin" in the last 10 minutes of the GF cost us a record margin over a very good Geelong side. That's why when Malcolm Blight on TV said Carlton was the "super side" of the century on GF day that year, after those margins in a year we won 23 from 25, I believed him, not that I'm biased or anything!!!!

the headline belongs to the sub-editor.

nowhere in that article does nick say pagan is the man to take carlton forward. nowhere does he say pagan is doing an outstanding job. it's not a glowing endorsement on pagan.

rather, nick sticks to his history lesson. anyway, i'm just trying to read between the lines that's all.

to me there's a difference in saying "i back pagan cos he's doing a great job and is the man to take us forward" to "let's get behind pagan cos he's been dealt a shitty hand and we all want this club back up there".

but really my post is aimed at those who have taken offence at what nick said cos he's supposedly backing pagan (and they love parkin) and cos nick dared downgrade the achievements of the immortal 95 team.

in my opinion, nick's main message is the call for unity. our club seems hopelessly divided by those who pine for the 1995-2000 regime and those who hold those years as being responsible for our current plight.

IMHO nick is just saying that for the sake of unity let's get behind pagan and the club administrators/directors and let them get on with it.

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... an eagle flew out of the night. he was something to observe, came in close i heard a voice, bending stretching every nerve, had to listen had no choice ...

i completely agree with u in that that is exactly the message big nick is trying to get across he just wants some unity and he probably thinks we've gone too far now to let go of pagan and so i thought u might have been a little biased in your comments before